# Game of Thrones Season 4: \[Fully And Openly Spoiled - See Sticky\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 2, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175 "2014-04-02T16:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/601 "2014-06-09T14:53:16Z")
I seriously can’t wait to read the reactions to the season finale, here and among my unsullied friends on Facebook. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/602 "2014-06-09T15:12:09Z")
A questions. What happens to married men who take the black. Several have and Ned was going to. Are previous marriages dissolved? Could Cat have taken up with Littlefinger? ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/603 "2014-06-09T15:14:49Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > …I was less happy about the resolution of Jon and Ygritte. My foggy memory seems to recall that Jon shot her with an arrow but he didn’t necessarily realize it was Ygritte at that moment. Or am I misremembering the book scene? I just read this a couple of days ago. IIRC, Jon finds her dying after the battle with an arrow between her breasts, and is relieved to see that the arrow is not one of his. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/604 "2014-06-09T15:16:07Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > I was less happy about the resolution of Jon and Ygritte. My foggy memory seems to recall that Jon shot her with an arrow but he didn’t necessarily realize it was Ygritte at that moment. Or am I misremembering the book scene? Yes. Jon checks the fletching on the arrow and is glad it wasn’t his. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/605 "2014-06-09T15:31:06Z")
Grenn and Pyp!! ☹ I liked some of the additional defenses the men on the wall had, that sweeping anchor thing and the exploding barrels. I didn’t like that we didn’t get the wildlings’ turtle, though. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/606 "2014-06-09T15:43:24Z")
Really… I was disappointed with this episode. I was hoping for more…everything. The assault by the giants and others from the north was really weak. They didn’t capture the scale of the attack. They didn’t convince you why the attack had to happen at that location, and not others along the 400 mile wide wall. They skipped the fight in the tunnel completely, which would have been awesome. The battle at the bottom at Castle Black seemed like it went on so long, that the dudes were just playing with swords. There was no organization at all so it was hard to tell who was who aside from the main characters. In the kitchen where some guy got hit with a giant cleaver…not even sure which side that guy was on or who was getting killed. Ygritte was annoying in this episode. Like cartoon villain annoying. The talk by the campfire before the battle seemed like obvious filler. Gilly walking back from Moles town was super lame. That whole sequence of dropping her off, talking about it, was a waste of time. Nothing productive came of it whatsoever. Not even character development. And she is so super whiny, though…I can forgive that since that character’s life must have really sucked. It was so obviously telegraphed that the little boy would kill Ygritte. He commented that he was great with a bow, they showed him watching her kill fools all over the place. And they showed it again on the ‘previously on’ segment. I think overall, it was a weak episode because we are in much the same place as we were before the episode. Mance is outside and wants to kill everyone. Yes Jon walked out for some dumb ass reason, and a bunch of dudes who I kinda liked died, but it seemed so anticlimactic. I loved the tracking shots though. The single scenes without cutting showing all the fighting. And Jon Snow got to be a bad ass with a sword (and hammer) so that was cool. He did literally get hit with an anvil, I thought that was cartoon like. That would kill you - or at least knock you out. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/607 "2014-06-09T16:10:41Z")
Overall I really liked the episode. I wasn’t happy with the Ygritte scene, though. I thought the way Martin handled it -where Jon Snow finds her, knows he’s not the one who killed her, and then just went on, was poignant and spoke a lot about the choices Jon is making; he knew she could get killed in the attack, knew he could do nothing to save her, finds her body, and then goes on with his duty. Having her die in front of him and the mushy death scene just didn’t do it for me. The stone-code stoicism was lost. That said, the rest of the episode was great. Love the fight scenes, loved the attacks, loved the giants and the mammoths. Of course, NEXT week is going to be even more awesome. Yay! ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/608 "2014-06-09T17:10:13Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > The battle at the bottom at Castle Black seemed like it went on so long, that the dudes were just playing with swords. There was no organization at all so it was hard to tell who was who aside from the main characters. In the kitchen where some guy got hit with a giant cleaver…not even sure which side that guy was on or who was getting killed. Pretty sure that was intended to be Three-Fingered Hobb, the cook. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/609 "2014-06-09T21:36:29Z")
Man I am so confused. Giants??? Since when? From where? (totally cool, though) And given the insane numbers (1,000 to 1), why in the world did the battle end? What stopped the rest? And what is the battle about? Why are the Wildlings attacking in the first place? What’s the big picture goal? And REALLY fucking rude devoting this whole ep to the battle and making us wait on Tyrion’s fate… (though I spoiled myself, so I know…at least book wise. And also looked up the Lady Stone-whatever so spoiled there, too, and the obvious is that will be the final shot for this season). I don’t understand most of what I’m watching, it’s so insanely complex, but still very entertaining. I worry that GRRM won’t live long enough to finish the story… I wonder who he intends to be the victor? I sure hope it’s Khaleesi… no matter how imperfect she is, she definitely has the best value system of anyone on the entire show, in or out of the running for the throne. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/610 "2014-06-09T22:00:14Z")
Giants were seen in a previous episode, after Jon gets captured and is brought to Mance’s camp. This current episode was a smaller attack to probe the defenses. The entire wildling army is much larger (was it 100,000:1? Or 10k?). Looks like TVGrenn is Grenn+Donal Noye. Overall, decent episode. Foreshadowing that archer kid would make the kill was so obvious and heavy-handed. Also embracing Ygritte was unlikely in the middle of a battle. Alliser was just dragged off the infirmary, right? > [@AK84](#): > > A questions. What happens to married men who take the black. Several have and Ned was going to. Are previous marriages dissolved? Could Cat have taken up with Littlefinger? I think it’s annulled or whatever the equivalent is. I can’t remember how much she knows about Ned’s death, but either way she was not interested in Littlefinger so it would have to be a [del]shotgun[/del] longbow wedding. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/611 "2014-06-09T22:05:00Z")
**Stoid** , you should go on ahead and read the books. At least up to 4. It will not ruin your enjoyment of the show. And the show will not remove any of the fun of the books. There’s a lot of stuff that got left out of the TV show and I’m wondering if all this “trolling” and “spoiling” is just a fake out. Unless the next book (or two) adds to the Caitlyn story, I don’t see why they ever need to mention Lady Stoneheart. Oh wait. ETA, they have sent Breinne and Pod out adventuring and I can’t see them changing the end to that. So, yeah, she’ll probably show up. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/612 "2014-06-09T22:28:26Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > **Stoid** , you should go on ahead and read the books. At least up to 4. It will not ruin your enjoyment of the show. And the show will not remove any of the fun of the books. > There’s a lot of stuff that got left out of the TV show and I’m wondering if all this “trolling” and “spoiling” is just a fake out. Unless the next book (or two) adds to the Caitlyn story, I don’t see why they ever need to mention Lady Stoneheart. > Oh wait. ETA, they have sent Breinne and Pod out adventuring and I can’t see them changing the end to that. So, yeah, she’ll probably show up. You could definitely have Brienne captured by Dondarrion/Thoros and given the rope, then sent to recapture Jaime and leave out Stoneheart if you really wanted to. But the source of Brienne’s drama of being caught between loyalties plays out better if Catelyn is undead. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/613 "2014-06-09T22:34:16Z")
Ah never mind, ignore my ratios :smack:. It was something like 100,000:100 (IIRC 102, 103, something like that). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/614 "2014-06-09T22:39:10Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > And what is the battle about? Why are the Wildlings attacking in the first place? What’s the big picture goal? The White Walkers (also known as the Others) are terrorizing the wildlings to the point that they are running south for their lives. The Wildlings want to put the wall between them and the White Walkers. Apparently, even the Giants are terrified of the White Walkers (which brings up a question – are there zombie giants… because that would be AWESOME!). ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/615 "2014-06-09T22:58:08Z")
Hey, waitaminit. Whose running Westeros at the end of ADWD? Timmon all by his lonesome? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/616 "2014-06-09T23:03:22Z")
Pycelle and Kevan, until Varys takes out Kevan which presumably leaves Cersei back in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/617 "2014-06-09T23:08:15Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Pycelle and Kevan, until Varys takes out Kevan which presumably leaves Cersei back in charge. Not if she’s found guilty. If Marg’s trial is before Cersei’s and she gets off, Marg could be running the show. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/618 "2014-06-09T23:08:28Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > **Stoid** , you should go on ahead and read the books. At least up to 4. It will not ruin your enjoyment of the show. And the show will not remove any of the fun of the books. I wish I could. I used to read several novels a month, until the day I quit smoking. I haven’t been able to read a novel since. 14 years and counting. (It’s what first revealed my ADD- nicotine is a stimulant, the standard treatment for ADD… I had been a near-chain smoker for 26 years.) > [@](#): > > I don’t see why they ever need to mention Lady Stoneheart. For the shock and awe of it. Guaranteed they do the reveal right at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Meloy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58f4c7/32.png) [@Meloy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meloy)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/619 "2014-06-09T23:10:14Z")
Good question. He has a living aunt but pretty much all the rest of his family is dead, disgraced, or absent. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/620 "2014-06-09T23:14:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > (which brings up a question – are there zombie giants… because that would be AWESOME!). There are zombie bears in the books, so I don’t see why not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=32)