# Game of Thrones Season 4: \[Fully And Openly Spoiled - See Sticky\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 2, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175 "2014-04-02T16:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/141 "2014-04-15T00:56:51Z")
It does raise the question… why bother with the crystal in Sansa’s hairnet? Why not just have Olenna have the crystal concealed in her pocket? Surely wedding guests of her rank weren’t frisked… ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/142 "2014-04-15T01:00:26Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > It does raise the question… why bother with the crystal in Sansa’s hairnet? Why not just have Olenna have the crystal concealed in her pocket? Surely wedding guests of her rank weren’t frisked… Additional suspect, and you don’t want anyone to know that you’ve been asking around for poison. Littlefinger getting the poison from the Vale and Joffrey dying at King’s Landing is enough distance that no one will ever connect the dots. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/143 "2014-04-15T02:21:46Z")
Littlefinger’s complicity makes less sense seeing how Joffrey felt indebted to him for letting him kill the prostitute. Of course that whole non-canonical scene did not really work for me. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/144 "2014-04-15T02:58:14Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Littlefinger’s complicity makes less sense seeing how Joffrey felt indebted to him for letting him kill the prostitute. Of course that whole non-canonical scene did not really work for me. I would say placated rather than indebted. Do you really think Joffery would feel obligated to return a favor from Littlefinger? ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/145 "2014-04-15T04:37:54Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I understand that Cersei is close to being insane and does not require any real motive to hate people. But I would be very interested to know why she seems to hate Margery and disapproved of the wedding. Does anyone know? There’s a motivation for this in the books that I’m pretty sure has been left out of the show. Gonna put this in a box because it’s probably a big, honkin’ **SPOILER** for the future of the series and some people might not want to know: [spoiler]Cersei’s living under the threat of a prophecy from a (credible) fortune teller from when she was a teenager. “_Queen you shall be… until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear._” So, she’s worried that Margaery, the new queen, will wreck her shit. There’s also a second prophecy that Cersei will outlive her children and be choked to death by her brother. So, might have something to do with her hatred for Tyrion. [Link](http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Maggy).[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/146 "2014-04-15T04:41:51Z")
[spoiler]valonqar Which means little brother. As prophesies aren’t often literal, it could mean a lot of things. Jaime is younger for one. Stannis is another little brother. [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/147 "2014-04-15T12:46:50Z")
I really REALLY REALLY want Cersei to die at Jamie’s hand before the whole series is over. ---
**Author:** ![chinchalinchin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@chinchalinchin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chinchalinchin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/148 "2014-04-15T13:19:32Z")
So, considering Tyrion never offhandedly made a remark about it and Joffrey is, you know, dead, does this mean the show is dropping the ‘Joffrey ordering a servant to kill Bran’ storyline? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/149 "2014-04-15T13:43:21Z")
Perhaps the show forgot about that mystery ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/150 "2014-04-15T13:49:47Z")
I Googled “who killed joffrey” and found the folllowing: [http://www.wetpaint.com/game-of-thrones/articles/2014-04-14-spoiler-who-killed-joffrey](http://www.wetpaint.com/game-of-thrones/articles/2014-04-14-spoiler-who-killed-joffrey) I placed the above link in a Spoiler tag just to be on the safe side. There are so many warnings about spoiling this show that I thought it would be best to be as careful as possible. If you don’t want to know who killed Joffrey, then do not click on the above “Show” button. I do not claim that the above link explains who killed Joffrey. After all, it is just some person’s explanation and they could be wrong. And even if they are correct, who is to say whether they are correct or not? After all, the show is based on a work of fiction and so I guess the closest one can come to the “truth” is the author’s opinion. Bottom line? Well, I suppose your guess is as good as mine. But, I do like the info contained in the above link and I’d certainly be interested in what you think about it. I suppose we do have to be mindful to not put any info in a thread that is not labeled as “SPOILER” info because it would not be nice to spoil any of the secrets about this show for any people who do not want to know any of the answers. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/151 "2014-04-15T13:56:54Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > I really REALLY REALLY want Cersei to die at Jamie’s hand before the whole series is over. Why would you think Jamie would ever want to kill her? To the best of my knowledge, don’t they both love each other with a real brotherly sisterly love? I’m not trying to be sarcastic. I honestly think that is the truth behind their feelings towards each other. However, I suppose I could always be mistaken about that. Do you think I am mistaken about that? ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/152 "2014-04-15T14:02:01Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Why would you think Jamie would ever want to kill her? > > To the best of my knowledge, don’t they both love each other with a real brotherly sisterly love? > > I’m not trying to be sarcastic. I honestly think that is the truth behind their feelings towards each other. > > However, I suppose I could always be mistaken about that. > > Do you think I am mistaken about that? As the books go on, their relationship changes. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/153 "2014-04-15T14:07:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, the fact that his new King was doing his best to humiliate him right then & there is a motive. > > There’s a missing gem on a necklace… I rewatched the episode several times but could never spot any missing gem from the necklace. I would have thought that someone would have captured that image and would have posted it into this thread somehow. At the very least, would not someone here know of a link to a picture of the necklace with the missing stone? I would very much like to see that. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/154 "2014-04-15T14:11:52Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > Didn’t enjoy this episode as much as I expected. Various little things from the wedding bugged me, including that Joffrey’s death was too clearly the result of poison. In the books his death closely resembles someone choking on his pie (only an autopsy confirms otherwise), so while we’re \*pretty \*sure that’s not the case, there’s at least some ambiguity. > > I also don’t entirely get the fight with Shae. Am I misremembering, or was there no such scene in the books? It seems to me the only purpose that scene could have would be to make Shae more sympathetic when she betrays Tyrion at his trial … but why make that change? It WAS a particularly brutal betrayal, but that’s what made it hit home, AND it suggested that maybe Shae \*never \*cared about Tyrion, that she was just a whore riding her meal ticket and faking all her professions of love. Now it’s going to seem like Tyrion is a victim of circumstance, a wacky misunderstanding (just with tragic consequences). Autopsy? Really? I don’t doubt you. I don’t know enough about the level of the technology in the fantasy of that book. But it just seems to me that given the level of the technology in all other aspects, I would have thought the strength of their technology would just not be up to proving whether Joff was poisoned or not. Does anyone here know of any supporting evidence that would substantiate that he was poisoned? Could they really prove that? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/155 "2014-04-15T14:12:18Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I understand that Cersei is close to being insane and does not require any real motive to hate people. But I would be very interested to know why she seems to hate Margery and disapproved of the wedding. Does anyone know? > > If not, does anyone have a good guess? Well, Cersei already has a head start in the crazy antisocial meanie department, and Margaery has proven more than adept at wrapping Joffrey around her finger which Cersei never managed and that’s \*gotta \*sting, but honestly ? Mothers-in-law, man. Margaery is the succubus, the overly pretty little sycophant tearing momma’s perfect widdle babby from under momma’s wing with her promises of dirty young enthusiastic sex and independence and GAWD, what a little bitch ! Every woman ever has hated their son’s slut wife. Every father in the world thinks their daughter’s husband is a jerk loser who doesn’t deserve her. It is known. I’m more puzzled by why she seems to positively loathe Pycelle of all people, when he used to be her creature. [QUOTE=MaxTheVool] It does raise the question… why bother with the crystal in Sansa’s hairnet? Why not just have Olenna have the crystal concealed in her pocket? Surely wedding guests of her rank weren’t frisked… [/QUOTE] Every good murder plot needs a patsy. Ask Lee Harvey Oswald. (kidding, guys !) ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/156 "2014-04-15T14:14:47Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I rewatched the episode several times but could never spot any missing gem from the necklace. > > I would have thought that someone would have captured that image and would have posted it into this thread somehow. > > At the very least, would not someone here know of a link to a picture of the necklace with the missing stone? > > I would very much like to see that. [[Album] Sansa's necklace was to DIE for! - Album on Imgur ![](https://i.imgur.com/9K2RM8N.jpeg?fb "Sansa") ](https://imgur.com/gallery/0EQr6) There you go, a simple walkthrough for what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/157 "2014-04-15T14:16:05Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > She sees Margaery as a power-hungry little bitch who will get in between Cersei and Joffrey. She wants to keep the power that she has as the Queen Regent and the influence that she has over Joffrey. By marrying Margaery into the family, the power and influence is kind of split between the Lannisters and the Tyrells. She’d prefer to keep the power in the family. > > Still, though, she didn’t kill Joffrey and her hatred of Margaery definitely didn’t die with him. Well, that certainly does make sense and I thank you for letting me know that. But, it sure does seem kind of crazy given what we have seen of Margery. She does not seem at all bent on doing anything to Cersei and so my guess would be that almost all of this is just owing to Cersei’s mental condition. If Cersei is not currently (as in the time of this episode) insane, she certainly is real close to being insane. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/158 "2014-04-15T14:19:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Well, Cersei already has a head start in the crazy antisocial meanie department, and Margaery has proven more than adept at wrapping Joffrey around her finger which Cersei never managed and that’s \*gotta \*sting, but honestly ? Mothers-in-law, man. Margaery is the succubus, the overly pretty little sycophant tearing momma’s perfect widdle babby from under momma’s wing with her promises of dirty young enthusiastic sex and independence and GAWD, what a little bitch ! > > Every woman ever has hated their son’s slut wife. Every father in the world thinks their daughter’s husband is a jerk loser who doesn’t deserve her. It is known. > > I’m more puzzled by why she seems to positively loathe Pycelle of all people, when he used to be her creature. > > Every good murder plot needs a patsy. Ask Lee Harvey Oswald. > > (kidding, guys !) I just want to say that I very much appreciate your fine sense of humor. It is very very good. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/159 "2014-04-15T14:20:09Z")
> [@Reverse](#): > > [Sansa's necklace was to DIE for! - Album on Imgur](http://imgur.com/gallery/0EQr6) > > There you go, a simple walkthrough for what happened. Excellent! Thank you ever so much Reverse. That is just what the doctor ordered! ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/160 "2014-04-15T14:43:24Z")
For whatever it is worth (which may well be nothing), I just cannot remember all of the names of all of these characters. There are just way too many of them. When I read this message board, there are just so many posts that I cannot follow because I just don’t know who the poster is referring to. It is just oh so confusing. I’m not really complaining. I guess it’s my own fault for not having read the books. Sigh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=9)