# Game of Thrones (season 5) BOOK SPOILERS!! TV SPOILERS! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539 "2015-04-13T02:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/241 "2015-05-11T11:28:38Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > A crazy idea crossed my mind. > > Is it conceivable that Varys and Littlefinger are actually working together for a common purpose? I seriously doubt it – they’ve had several private conversations on screen in past seasons, and they seemed to be pretty clearly at odds with each other. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/242 "2015-05-11T12:08:20Z")
In the books Varys is working to install his and Illyrio’s handpicked monarch. Littlefinger is… well, we’re not sure. He’s been creating chaos presumably to gain power for himself. That does create conditions that are ripe for Aegon though. Varys tells Kevan he wants a just ruler, and he’s about to kill Kevan so there’s not a lot of reason to lie. That’s not Littlefinger. I think things point to no, and if that’s a twist GRRM decides to throw in I’ll be disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/243 "2015-05-11T12:32:50Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I didn’t think Kevan would reappear on the show, and I’m happy he did since I like the character. > > I’m betting that after taking over, he will be murdered by Littlefinger (Varys being absent, and Littlefinger having apparently some urgent business in King’s landing). Did I miss something? Episode s5e05 had no Kevan. Did he appear in the previews for episode 6? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/244 "2015-05-11T14:46:39Z")
So it appears that Tyrion is still going to be taking forever to get to Meereen - just on foot this time. Still a chance for a surprise Griff and Young Griff meeting (I know, I know - I’ve given up on that… mostly) ;). Also Stannis’s “fewer” was fantastically amusing. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/245 "2015-05-11T15:34:43Z")
> [@DeptfordX](#): > > We’ll always have, fingers crossed, eventually the books. > > So i’m fine with them changing/simplifying plotlines. If your changing a story between different media formats it’s probably almost inevitable that you’re going to have to change what may just not work in the new format. > > There’s barely enough screen time as there is. Can you imagine if we had to throw the Iron Islands, Jon Conninton and young Griff, Quentyn Martells quest, etc etc. into the mix as well. > > I like to think of the TV series as a fun ‘Alt-history’ version of the story. Yes, the way I imagine it is that GRRM has laid out to the show-runners the major milestones of the story around which the rest of the details turn – so, something like “Sansa at Winterfell, the North rallies to her cause” or some such. In the book version maybe she will marry Ser Harold (name?), reveal herself privately to Harold and certain others (she already did, to the Vale council or whatever they’re called, right?), the Vale marches on the Boltons at Winterfell, loses, Harold is killed, Sansa taken captive, somehow is revealed/discovered, 1000 pages later we have Sansa at Winterfell rallying the North. The showrunners say “how can we do that in 2 or 3 episodes?” They can’t, so they find a much more direct way to get her there using characters and information already in the show-world. I think the books will still be a richly-described world of surprising twists and turns (or a meandering mess of unnecessary exposition, potato po-tah-to) that most will still find fun to read. I bet from this point on they will share the same story “milestones” (which may actually be much fewer than one might expect), and have increasingly little else in common. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/246 "2015-05-11T19:17:02Z")
I like the use of the dragons last night. Much better than how they’ve been utilized in the books. That said, it actually made little sense. Dani locked them up because they killed someone innocent and she couldn’t bear that to happen again. But now, she’s willing to have someone who was also potentially innocent charred and ripped apart just to prove a point…and she still keeps the dragons (her children) locked up. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/247 "2015-05-11T21:36:01Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > I like the use of the dragons last night. Much better than how they’ve been utilized in the books. That said, it actually made little sense. Dani locked them up because they killed someone innocent and she couldn’t bear that to happen again. But now, she’s willing to have someone who was also potentially innocent charred and ripped apart just to prove a point…and she still keeps the dragons (her children) locked up. I was assuming that she was about to reveal that the head-of-family she had chosen “at random” was in fact one that she knew (due to examining corpses of dead Sons of Harpies) to have been heavily involved with the killings. That would make way more sense. It’s still possible that we’ll learn something to that effect in the future. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/248 "2015-05-12T07:22:43Z")
> [@unwashed\_brain](#): > > Did I miss something? Episode s5e05 had no Kevan. Did he appear in the previews for episode 6? Nope. He appeared some episodes ago, at the small council, refusing the offer to lead the king’s army and opposing Cersei. But there was no reason for this scene (or even to make him appear. I think he was last seen in season 2) if he isn’t going to play a part in the coming events. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/249 "2015-05-12T07:46:15Z")
Not sure how to feel about the Dany change (in regards to her deciding to marry Hizdahr). On one hand, having her make the decision (nay, even the idea) makes her stronger. And it’s better than listening to him drone on and on about the offer. On the other hand, it feels a bit out of left field, and I always liked how he was obviously linked to the Sons of the Harpy and cornered her into the marriage. So they’re basically trying to strengthen Dany at the expense of weakening Hizdahr. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/250 "2015-05-12T13:00:04Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > Not sure how to feel about the Dany change (in regards to her deciding to marry Hizdahr). On one hand, having her make the decision (nay, even the idea) makes her stronger. And it’s better than listening to him drone on and on about the offer. On the other hand, it feels a bit out of left field, and I always liked how he was obviously linked to the Sons of the Harpy and cornered her into the marriage. So they’re basically trying to strengthen Dany at the expense of weakening Hizdahr. In the books, Hizdahr is quite a bit more charming. He’s portrayed as too earnest and ignoble in the TV series. Dany and he have many more written scenes together, and the idea to marry him was suggested to her. Also, the condition placed on their betrothal is that Hizdahr delivers 90 days without a murder by the Sons of the Harpy. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/251 "2015-05-12T13:25:26Z")
If there are supposed to be three dragons and they leave out baby Aegon, who does that leave, Tyrion? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/252 "2015-05-12T18:16:59Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > If there are supposed to be three dragons and they leave out baby Aegon, who does that leave, Tyrion? I can’t tell if there’s a joke I’m missing or I’m being whooshed or what. But Tyrion’s the dwarf. There are still three dragons. Two in the dungeon and the black one, Drogon, is out touring the countryside. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/253 "2015-05-12T18:22:43Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > If there are supposed to be three dragons and they leave out baby Aegon, who does that leave, Tyrion? Assuming you’re talking about the potential dragon-riders, I think the most likely are Dany, Tyrion and Jon, eventually. Other alternatives are Jorah, Aegon (assuming he’s actually a Targaryen), one of the Martells, one of the remaining Starks, or perhaps one of the dragons will be killed or captured, possibly by the Greyjoys. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/254 "2015-05-12T19:24:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Assuming you’re talking about the potential dragon-riders, I think the most likely are Dany, Tyrion and Jon, eventually. I’d take out Tyrion and add in Bran. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/255 "2015-05-14T16:09:35Z")
> [@Game of Thrones 5.05 "Kill the Boy" 5/10/15 \[Show Discussion\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/114): > > Have there been any good mothers in the series? I imagine the closest would be Catelyn, but then there was that whole thing with Jaime… Huge spoiler: Isn’t Catelyn still “around”? Zombieish, somewhere? I wonder if she will play some future part vis a vis Walder. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/256 "2015-05-15T07:49:39Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > Huge spoiler: > > Isn’t Catelyn still “around”? Zombieish, somewhere? I wonder if she will play some future part vis a vis Walder. This post was moved from the [most recent TV show discussion topic.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=756607) Let’s really try to keep these separate. Any other posts made in the above thread that are about the books will get moved here. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/257 "2015-05-15T11:32:02Z")
I haven’t read the most recent prequel, but I’m under the impression that it makes it clear you don’t have to be a Targaryen to ride a dragon. So a dragon rider could be anyone. Aegon was almost certainly a Blackfyre descendent; I’m not sure if that would make him count as dragon rider eligible under the supposed “only Targs can ride dragons” rules. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/258 "2015-05-15T14:29:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Assuming you’re talking about the potential dragon-riders, I think the most likely are Dany, Tyrion and Jon, eventually. Other alternatives are Jorah, Aegon (assuming he’s actually a Targaryen), one of the Martells, one of the remaining Starks, or perhaps one of the dragons will be killed or captured, possibly by the Greyjoys. > [@Sauron](#): > > I’d take out Tyrion and add in Bran. There is a rumor regarding Tyrion that he’s actually a product of rape - Aerys II’s infatuation with Joanna Lannister resulted in his forcing himself on her. May be another reason why Tywin can’t stand Tyrion. The reasons being (aside from dwarfishness, I guess) the very light blond hair - in Game of Thrones (the first book, I mean) it is described as lighter than Jaime’s and Cersei’s and one of his eyes is purple. Who knows. There has been some notions that Bran maybe being able to warg into a dragon, which isn’t really “riding” one per se and definitely not one that Dany would like, I’m sure. The closest relation to Dany in Westeros is Stannis - they share a great-grandfather (Aegon V, aka “Egg”). And wouldn’t THAT be interesting? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/259 "2015-05-15T14:35:12Z")
Oh, and if Aegon is a Blackfyre (I’m not entirely convinced), that fork goes back to Aegon V’s great-grandfather, Aegon IV. So interestingly Stannis may be closer related to the Targaryens than any living Blackfyre ;). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/260 "2015-05-15T14:58:21Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > There is a rumor regarding Tyrion that he’s actually a product of rape - Aerys II’s infatuation with Joanna Lannister resulted in his forcing himself on her. May be another reason why Tywin can’t stand Tyrion. The reasons being (aside from dwarfishness, I guess) the very light blond hair - in Game of Thrones (the first book, I mean) it is described as lighter than Jaime’s and Cersei’s and one of his eyes is purple. Who knows. I’ve heard that rumor but I don’t buy it – there’s already a handful of ‘secret/unknown parents’ kids (Jon, Joffrey/Tommen/Myrcella, Aegon) with political consequences… I doubt GRRM is shoehorning in another. Plus, Tyrion is the only child of Tywin (apparently) who seems to have inherited his gift for politics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539.md?page=14)