# Game of Thrones (season 5) BOOK SPOILERS!! TV SPOILERS! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539 "2015-04-13T02:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/41 "2015-04-14T18:09:18Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > They are all good stories but, as of yet, have very little to do with the plot. If GRRM had kept the side-stories to a minimum, the book series would be finished by now. Yes, but they make the books so rich and give life to the world. That, in itself, elevates the books over other recent fantasy novels, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/42 "2015-04-14T18:14:33Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > Is this adequately titled and okay given the rules in place? What rules? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/43 "2015-04-14T18:16:36Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I am fine with the book and show diverging, but this show storyline makes no sense. I mean I can see Littlefinger doing something like that, but he’s a super cold-hearted bastard of which I don’t see Sansa being, regardless of how much she learns to play the game. Have you already seen it? Maybe they can pull it off. No point being harsh when you haven’t actually seen it yet, and we don’t know the details. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/44 "2015-04-14T18:19:39Z")
> [@fusoya](#): > > Anyone else think that these “the books DON"T EVEN EXIST…in fact the leaked episodes DON’T EVEN EXIST” folk need to get off their high thrones? I mean, it’s one thing to not discuss anything from the literature in the thread, but all of this LALAALALALALA THERE _IS_ NO BOOK just seems insulting to both the author and his many fans, without which the TV show wouldn’t even exist either. Something that has just always bothered me about this site’s approach to the discussion… I agree, but I will admit that in the first season (and only the first season) there was a lot of crap like “Well, dont get to attached to that character…hint…hint”:rolleyes: and other similar spoilers. That was rude, and _something_ needed to be done. Pretending that the books dont exist is a childish overreaction, however. There’s a huge difference between SPOILERS! and simply discussing the difference in how the books and HBO handled the same scene. This discussion might be better for ATMB, however. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/45 "2015-04-14T18:33:24Z")
I think Sansa’s character is changing along the same lines as it did and will in the books, except that it’s happening a bit faster. I don’t think she’ll become cruel. Rather, she’s more realistic about the uses and abuses of power, and the need for cunning in the world in which she lives. I loved Lancel II. Was Cersei ever charged with playing a role in Robert’s death in the books? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/46 "2015-04-14T19:26:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Have you already seen it? Maybe they can pull it off. No point being harsh when you haven’t actually seen it yet, and we don’t know the details. Of course there is a point :p. Sansa engaged off to the son of her brother’s betrayer makes no sense considering her character. Regardless of being more realistic about how to use power, there tend to be lines one does not cross (possible exception for Littlefinger - but I bet even he would draw the line at Cat’s killers). In the books, being more cunning results in Sansa realize that marrying Harold Hardyng is a great play. That is NOTHING like getting engaged to Ramsey Snow. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/47 "2015-04-14T19:29:58Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Of course there is a point :p. Sansa engaged off to the son of her brother’s betrayer makes no sense considering her character. Regardless of being more realistic about how to use power, there tend to be lines one does not cross (possible exception for Littlefinger - but I bet even he would draw the line at Cat’s killers). > > In the books, being more cunning results in Sansa realize that marrying Harold Hardyng is a great play. That is NOTHING like getting engaged to Ramsey Snow. Sansa didn’t want to be enganged to her father’s killer either but she was. Does she have a choice in anything that ever happens to her? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/48 "2015-04-14T19:33:13Z")
But under Littlefinger she does have more choice - in fact that’s the arc of her story after coming to the Vale. She isn’t threatened with beatings and violence. She learns about the use of cunning and figures out why Littlefinger wants her to be married to Harold and realizes how smart it is. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/49 "2015-04-14T19:37:44Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Of course there is a point :p. Sansa engaged off to the son of her brother’s betrayer makes no sense considering her character. Regardless of being more realistic about how to use power, there tend to be lines one does not cross (possible exception for Littlefinger - but I bet even he would draw the line at Cat’s killers). > > In the books, being more cunning results in Sansa realize that marrying Harold Hardyng is a great play. That is NOTHING like getting engaged to Ramsey Snow. How do you know that any engagement to Ramsey isn’t part of a plot to ultimate betray the Boltons? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/50 "2015-04-14T19:40:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How do you know that any engagement to Ramsey isn’t part of a plot to ultimate betray the Boltons? Of course it would be, but you’d have to imagine a Sansa putting aside ALL of her feelings of anger to make it work. And for Roose Bolton to be an idiot and not consider it may be a betrayal at work (esp considering how easily Littlefinger became Lord Protector of the Vale). I think the issue is this wrong-headed notion that when the show departs from the books they know what they are doing. Usually they don’t. One need merely look at the whole dragons being stolen storyline to know that (or the Talisa over Jeyne decision). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/51 "2015-04-14T20:04:48Z")
And the bier-side rape ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/52 "2015-04-14T20:13:45Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > But under Littlefinger she does have more choice - in fact that’s the arc of her story after coming to the Vale. > > She isn’t threatened with beatings and violence. She learns about the use of cunning and figures out why Littlefinger wants her to be married to Harold and realizes how smart it is. No she doesn’t. She has to do what he says or it’s back to King’s Landing for her. Or worse. Sure, she can _try_ to talk Littlefinger out of whatever nefarious plot he has brewing in his weasily brain but if he wants her to marry Crazy McFlayflay, what choice does she have? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/53 "2015-04-14T20:17:05Z")
Have you read her chapters lately? Littlefinger is in charge in the Vale, but Sansa also witnessed the murder of Lysa. Littlefinger also realizes this. However, Littlefinger takes pains to educate Sansa, and tries to have her understand the methods. He doesn’t simply order. Sansa ends up seeing what he’s trying to do and realizes that she has a substantial part to play. The newly released Sansa chapter from Winds indicates this very plain. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/54 "2015-04-14T20:18:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And the bier-side rape Which the showrunners were apparently surprised that folks thought it was rape-y. Which… yeah… ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/55 "2015-04-14T20:31:13Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Have you read her chapters lately? > > Littlefinger is in charge in the Vale, but Sansa also witnessed the murder of Lysa. Littlefinger also realizes this. However, Littlefinger takes pains to educate Sansa, and tries to have her understand the methods. He doesn’t simply order. Sansa ends up seeing what he’s trying to do and realizes that she has a substantial part to play. > > The newly released Sansa chapter from Winds indicates this very plain. I have not read passed the never-ending boat ride in the last book. Keep meaning to go back and finish, but I keep opening it up to Tyrion in a boat and all I can think of is [this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHgalpYtCH8)\* \*NSFW language. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/56 "2015-04-14T20:34:05Z")
So your frame of reference for this isn’t exactly the best then? It’s a shame. The last third of Dance with Dragons is fantastic stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/57 "2015-04-14T20:36:52Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > So your frame of reference for this isn’t exactly the best then? > > It’s a shame. The last third of Dance with Dragons is fantastic stuff. My frame of reference is what I’ve read and seen so far. But thanks for encouragement! ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/58 "2015-04-14T20:43:01Z")
Dance is so weird. The Reek chapters are the best of any chapters in any of the books, but 75% of the book goes nowhere. Littlefinger is definitely grooming Sansa in Dance, but she’s still like a 14 year old girl hanging around a guy she knows is a murderer and liar. She might have more of a choice than “do what Joffrey says or get beaten bloody by grown men,” but she definitely doesn’t have full agency. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/59 "2015-04-14T23:22:51Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Yes, but they make the books so rich and give life to the world. That, in itself, elevates the books over other recent fantasy novels, IMO. Exactly the contrary, IMO. It’s what makes the books mediocre. The world could be enriched by publishing more separate stories (hopefully not cluttered by irrelevant blabber). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/60 "2015-04-14T23:36:10Z")
> [@fusoya](#): > > Anyone else think that these “the books DON"T EVEN EXIST…in fact the leaked episodes DON’T EVEN EXIST” folk need to get off their high thrones? I mean, it’s one thing to not discuss anything from the literature in the thread, but all of this LALAALALALALA THERE _IS_ NO BOOK just seems insulting to both the author and his many fans, without which the TV show wouldn’t even exist either. Something that has just always bothered me about this site’s approach to the discussion. No. This policy has nothing to do with ignoring the author and everything to with the fact that the first threads devolved into harsh arguments about what could or could not be mentioned from the books. Allowing to mention them always end up with spoilers being posted, unwillingly (someone wants to explain better some aspect of the story to the watchers, but it can be deduced from his comment that some character survives in the long run, for instance) or willingly (there was this guy who thought that not wanting spoilers makes no sense and who kept insisting he should be free to write whatever about the books’ content). Completely forbiding any reference to the books is the only policy that works properly, avoid people to be spoiled, and prevent arguments about what exactly the policy is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539.md?page=4)