# Game of Thrones (season 5) BOOK SPOILERS!! TV SPOILERS! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539 "2015-04-13T02:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![JVDaly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@JVDaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JVDaly)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/661 "2015-06-12T01:15:53Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Wasn’t there a scene in which Joffrey said a little too much about Valerian steel and Tyrion figured it out? Now you mention it, that does ring a bell. It seems quite a low key way to break such a big revelation though. Did they hint at it in any other ways? P.S. - **lisiate** , thank you _so_ much for recommending Preston Jacobs’ channel! It’s brilliant. I’m going through the ‘Littlefinger debt scheme’ videos at the moment. I pride myself on being a pretty knowledgeable fan but I can’t follow half of it! It’s one of the maddest things I’ve ever seen! ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/662 "2015-06-12T01:35:06Z")
Yeah, it’s pretty amazing stuff. Make sure you watch his explanation for why the Ironborn don’t really [feature in Game of Thrones](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAvZzE98BTU). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/663 "2015-06-12T11:28:30Z")
Ugh. I can’t listen to their voices. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/664 "2015-06-12T21:21:37Z")
> [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > The thing about Stannis thinking he’s humanity’s last savior? That’s all book stuff. The show isn’t doing a good job of showing us anything other than he’s a bitter little gloryhound trying to get his ass on the Iron Throne. I don’t think we need all the books’ teeth grinding and agonizing or anything, but by the **show’s** own characterization and history, the burning makes no sense RIGHT NOW FOR THIS REASON. … > [@magnusblitz](#): > > Yup. I _can_ see Book Stannis choosing to burn Shireen if he was absolutely convinced it was the only way to save ALL OF HUMANITY from the Others - basically, one life for the world. That’s his duty as Azor Ahai, whether he likes it or not. Unfairly thrust upon him, but Stannis has always done his duty, and if it’s his duty to sacrifice his only child so that the Red God will intervene and save humanity, he’ll do it. > > But the show doesn’t really give us any of that. Apparently he’s sacrificing his daughter so he can win the battle for Winterfell and reclaim the North… but he hasn’t really seen the White Walkers yet. And as you pointed out, he doesn’t even have as much reason as Book Stannis to believe in R’hllor since Balon Greyjoy is still alive. And it further weakens Stannis’ character to even be in the situation to begin with - he’s supposed to be a great battle commander who’s survived terrible sieges, but he gets caught with his pants down by Ramsay and his ninja squad? … Yes and again yes. How is it that some (in the episode thread) are actually able to see Show Stannis as being Good Decision Guy/Noble Commander Guy??? The teleplays really don’t support such a conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/665 "2015-06-12T21:35:18Z")
Verge had a new piece of evidence on Lady Stoneheart that I just read. They point out that the first shot in the final episode preview shows a lone figure on a cliff looking at Moat Cailin. Scant evidence, but I thought it was interesting and, to me, more compelling than the episode title or a brief appearance on IMDB. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/666 "2015-06-13T16:11:26Z")
I’m wondering if they are saving Varys and Kevan for next year. It wouldn’t make sense to shoehorn it into tomorrows episode. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/667 "2015-06-13T21:11:25Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > To save her, I’d burn the whole world, and use my soul for tinder. Good for you, **Qadgop**. IMO if someone isn’t willing to let the world burn for their kids’ sake, they don’t love their kids enough. That’s not to say that it’d be the objectively _better_ outcome if it ever came down to it, but in practice people won’t ever be in a position of literally choosing to burn the world down, and for the kinds of choices a parent actually faces, it’s a lot better to be all in for your kids. At the risk of spilling into Great Debate territory, it’s analogous to the people who say “Well, you can’t say ‘never torture anyone’, because what if the terrorist had a hidden nuke and the only way to find it is with torture.” But in practice it never comes down to that, it’s always “Well, maybe this guy knows something about some possible attack, and maybe torture will help us figure it out.” And if the CIA guys don’t have a hard line against torture, they can talk themselves into it. “Don’t torture” should be a hard line, and “don’t kill your kids” should be a hard line, too. Even if it’d result in an arguably _wrong_ decision in a completely implausible situation, having a hard line keeps you from talking yourself into the wrong decision in the situations you actually might face. People will say, “Well, Stannis really _is_ in the ‘implausible’ situation where killing his daughter will save the world.” I don’t buy it. I don’t know how the show is going to end, but I’m willing to bet (1) Stannis ends up dead, and (2) the White Walkers don’t end up overrunning all of Westeros. If I’m right, then Stannis is just another case of someone talking himself into thinking the ends justify the means, forgetting that “even the wise cannot see all ends”. Even after he made the mistake of taking his daughter with them, he should have sent her back to Castle Black with Davos (as Davos pleaded for him to do). While I’m making predictions, I predict that not everyone at Castle Black will be killed by the White Walkers. At least there Shireen would have had a chance. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/668 "2015-06-13T22:17:03Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > At the risk of spilling into Great Debate territory, it’s analogous to the people who say “Well, you can’t say ‘never torture anyone’, because what if the terrorist had a hidden nuke and the only way to find it is with torture.” Suppose your kid was sick, and needed a transplant. Would you lie to get him or her higher up the transplant list? Would you kill kids who were ahead of your kid on the list? If your kid was accused of a crime, would you perjure yourself to help them? Would you mortgage your house and empty your life savings to bail them out? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/669 "2015-06-14T01:56:34Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I’m wondering if they are saving Varys and Kevan for next year. It wouldn’t make sense to shoehorn it into tomorrows episode. Agreed. And we’re still due for Cersei’s naked Walk of Shame, aren’t we? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/670 "2015-06-14T03:21:01Z")
Stannis does believe that he needs to win to save the world. \*Only he can lead the living against the dead.\* He "knows" that he is the only chance the living have. Period. He’s probably wrong, of course, but in his mind, with what he’s seen, this is more than killing his daughter to win a single battle. This is sacrificing her to save everyone on the planet, including her. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/671 "2015-06-14T04:18:48Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Agreed. And we’re still due for Cersei’s naked Walk of Shame, aren’t we? I wonder if she’ll still get all of her hair shaved off; the Sparrows didn’t to that to the previous High Septon. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/672 "2015-06-14T04:52:54Z")
Gee. It would be so totally unheard of for a woman to be punished more severely than a man for sex-based offenses. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/673 "2015-06-14T19:30:36Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Gee. It would be so totally unheard of for a woman to be punished more severely than a man for sex-based offenses. Seriously. We can be fairly certain that Cersei’s humiliation will be far more lovingly dwelt on than was the humiliation of the septon. It will go on and on and on. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/674 "2015-06-14T19:49:10Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I’m wondering if they are saving Varys and Kevan for next year. It wouldn’t make sense to shoehorn it into tomorrows episode. My guess was that Littlefinger, not Varys, would kill Kevan. However, we haven’t even seen Kevan acting as a ruler, so it seems to me his assassination now would make little sense. Especially since they have so much stuff to cram into this episode already. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/675 "2015-06-14T21:05:40Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Seriously. We can be fairly certain that Cersei’s humiliation will be far more lovingly dwelt on than was the humiliation of the septon. > > It will go on and on and on. Well, that is how Martin wrote it. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/676 "2015-06-14T21:33:26Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > My guess was that Littlefinger, not Varys, would kill Kevan. However, we haven’t even seen Kevan acting as a ruler, so it seems to me his assassination now would make little sense. Upon reflexion, unless they make hell get loose in the episode, including all the elements we know about (Lady Stoneheart, the death of Balon Greyjoy, the murder of Kevan, the assassination of Jon Snow) and others not yet published with a lot of cards seemingly redistributed, and everything we’re accustomed to coming to a sudden crash. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/677 "2015-06-14T21:49:18Z")
The “previously on” has leaked and based on it, someone unexpected should show up : Benjen Stark ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/678 "2015-06-14T21:49:46Z")
Why is Jaime Lannister so God-awful fighting with his left hand? I get it’s his weaker hand, but he was supposed to be one of the greatest swordsmen in Westeros. I would have thought he would be able to fight with both hands Indigo Montoya style. > [@JVDaly](#): > > Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post > Wasn’t there a scene in which Joffrey said a little too much about Valerian steel and Tyrion figured it out? > > Now you mention it, that does ring a bell. It seems quite a low key way to break such a big revelation though. Did they hint at it in any other ways? According to the Wiki, “Littlefinger falsely claims that the dagger belongs to Tyrion Lannister.” The implication is that Littlefinger probably encouraged Joefrey to order the assassination. From Littlefinger’s perspective, he was using could have been an accident as an opportunity to incite a feud between the Lannisters and Starks for his own ends. From Catlyns perspective, finding a golden hair in the tower and the assassination attempt is enough to convince her the Lannisters are involved. Since Bran is off North o’ the Wall, all the Starks are dead or in exile, Joefrey is dead, and Tyrion is a fugitive (who won a “trial by combat” for the attempted murder of Bran, which while following the letter of Westeros law, isn’t exactly preponderance of evidence of his innocence) I don’t think anyone is going to follow up on this. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/679 "2015-06-14T21:57:40Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > According to the Wiki, “Littlefinger falsely claims that the dagger belongs to Tyrion Lannister.” The implication is that Littlefinger probably encouraged Joefrey to order the assassination. From Littlefinger’s perspective, he was using could have been an accident as an opportunity to incite a feud between the Lannisters and Starks for his own ends. From Catlyns perspective, finding a golden hair in the tower and the assassination attempt is enough to convince her the Lannisters are involved. Littlefinger was in kings landing, months of travel away from Joffrey. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/680 "2015-06-14T23:08:59Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Why is Jaime Lannister so God-awful fighting with his left hand? I get it’s his weaker hand, but he was supposed to be one of the greatest swordsmen in Westeros. I would have thought he would be able to fight with both hands Indigo Montoya style. Is there any reason to believe that that’s an actual thing that happens? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539.md?page=35)