# Game of Thrones (season 5) BOOK SPOILERS!! TV SPOILERS! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539 "2015-04-13T02:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/701 "2015-06-15T14:16:08Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Did you notice how he demured when asked about cutting his hair? The EW interview says he cut his hair. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/702 "2015-06-15T14:50:50Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > Stannis: My initial inclination is to think “he’s not dead.” They have no problem showing very final deaths on screen, so to have there be a cut away when Brienne swings the sword is suspicious. I also have trouble believing that Stannis’ entire story just fizzles out like that given where he is in the book (and how in the book he seems to be in a good position to win the Battle for Winterfell, unlike here). I will say if Stannis really is dead (and I have my doubts, not just for the cutting away before the killing blow - but the final words being “Do you duty” which may have reminded Brienne why she was around Winterfell in the first place), that was such a bad-ass Stannis way to go. First kill two of the enemy when they have the drop on you and you are bleeding heavily. Then when asked his final words, he does a Stannis and says “Do your duty” (which actually do work as final words for Stannis when you think about it). While the showrunners are kind of bastards with dog whistles to book readers… calling the final episode “Mother’s Mercy” anyone?.. I can’t be the only one who noticed that Stannis’s “death” scene was very much like Brienne’s “death” scene at the end of A Feast for Crows. In the forest, backed up to a tree, asked for a final word… maybe Stannis’s spared his life as Brienne’s spared hers > [@](#): > > Oh, and Dorne proved to be as absolutely pointless as we all feared. Killing Myrcella also seems like a rather large departure from the books - how could it do anything but spark war between Dorne and the Lannisters? Indeed. I think we all wish that the showrunners picked the Iron Islands as the new Feast for Crows place they chose to film if this is what the Dornish plot got us. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/703 "2015-06-15T15:33:04Z")
I also read that Harrington interview, and the PS that he did cut his hair. I wonder if he’s not telling at least partially the truth… This season has completely ignored a few (possibly) important plotlines. Most importantly (probably); whatever Bran’s up to in the tree. Then there’s Rickon, and his trip to wherever he’s going and what happens when he gets there. Everything with the Greyjoys and the Iron Islands. Littlefinger seems to be running around all over the place, and we only see him pop up here and there; so maybe he’s up to more than just popping in for quick chats all over the kingdom. I think it’s possible that next season will at least start with kind of a rewind and cover some of these other storylines _during largely the same time period_ as this season. The only thing is that would be really risky, expecting people to stick it out for a whole season with the plotlines containing the “major” characters hanging out on a cliffhanger super-hiatus. It could also be that “Jon” is dead, but if he wakes up or manages to warg or is resurrected by Melisandre or recruited by the White Walkers…he may technically have a new name or character, and his hair isn’t needed with the new makeup/CG or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/704 "2015-06-15T15:53:59Z")
I think this pretty much confirms Book-Ramsey’s letter to Jon was accurate, (something I was convinced was false since publication) ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/705 "2015-06-15T15:54:34Z")
Good point on the hair not needed. If Jon is resurrected by Mel, they may decide to cut off his hair so he isn’t recognized when he tries to sneak away. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/706 "2015-06-15T16:51:55Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > I think this pretty much confirms Book-Ramsey’s letter to Jon was accurate, (something I was convinced was false since publication) Can you remind me what that is? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/707 "2015-06-15T17:06:39Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Can you remind me what that is? Jon received a letter signed by Ramsay and addressed to “bastard” asserting that Stannis was dead and that Mance Rayder had been caught. It demanded return of Jeyne Poole (well, “Arya Stark”) and Theon and handing over of Selyse, Shireen, and Melisandre and Mance’s consort and child—who had been switched for Gilly’s son. It also challenged Jon to try to rescue Mance. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/708 "2015-06-15T17:25:47Z")
So, at this point, how many characters/storylines do we have for which a) the story is sufficiently similar in the books and show that we can make comparisons, and b) the books are still ahead of the show? All I can think of is Arya, inasmuch as her blindness has come and gone on the printed page. But beyond that, is there anything that we’re going to see on HBO next season that won’t be a ‘spoiler’ for book readers (assuming GRRM doesn’t actually get _The Winds of Winter_ into our hands)? ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/709 "2015-06-15T17:43:45Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > So, at this point, how many characters/storylines do we have for which > > a) the story is sufficiently similar in the books and show that we can make comparisons, and > b) the books are still ahead of the show? > > All I can think of is Arya, inasmuch as her blindness has come and gone on the printed page. But beyond that, is there anything that we’re going to see on HBO next season that won’t be a ‘spoiler’ for book readers (assuming GRRM doesn’t actually get _The Winds of Winter_ into our hands)? Not sure how much of this will make the show: [ol] [li]The happenings in the Iron Islands[/li][li]Kevan Lannister[/li][li]Lady Stoneheart[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/710 "2015-06-15T17:51:31Z")
I imagine Kevan will get killed at some point. Though it’ll obviously take a while since Varys is chilling with Tyrion - maybe he’ll send a message to his little birds? And yes, I think that possibly at some point they may have to go back to the Iron Islands. Balon dying would be a good thing to do at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/711 "2015-06-15T18:58:20Z")
Great to see Tyrion and Varys reunited. I suspect that Jon will be raised from the dead by the Red Priestess, a la Thoros of Myr. Will Jaime order the ship to turn right around to blame Ellaria for his daughter’s poisoning? Hmm. Maybe better just to keep on sailing for KL. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/712 "2015-06-15T19:10:48Z")
If jon is not dead forever and Kit Harrington is truthfully saying he is done, the maybe zombie-Jon is so decomposed that they need a new actor in CGI. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/713 "2015-06-15T19:14:53Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > I think this pretty much confirms Book-Ramsey’s letter to Jon was accurate, (something I was convinced was false since publication) Nah, I still think there’s no way the Pink Letter is written by Ramsay. There’s far too many details given about the letter that demonstrate that it isn’t Ramsay’s (such as analyzing the way he writes in other letters known to be his). What has changed for me is who the actual author is likely to be - most speculation was that it was either Stannis or Mance, now I’m thinking it might’ve been written by a member of the Night’s Watch who wanted Jon to do something stupid and convince the other Night’s Watch members to mutiny. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Great to see Tyrion and Varys reunited. > > I suspect that Jon will be raised from the dead by the Red Priestess, a la Thoros of Myr. > > Will Jaime order the ship to turn right around to blame Ellaria for his daughter’s poisoning? Hmm. Maybe better just to keep on sailing for KL. I agree with you re: Jon/Thoros style resurrection. After ADWD the two main theories were either “he’ll warg into Ghost” or “Melisandre resurrection”, looks like the show is going with #2. I would think it’d be best for Jaime to keep sailing, and keep Tristane as a prisoner. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/714 "2015-06-15T19:45:56Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > I would think it’d be best for Jaime to keep sailing, and keep Tristane as a prisoner. Yeah, there is no way Jaime turns back. That’d be suicide. Of course, this also means that Doran’s character in the show comes across as far dumber than his book version - unless he meant to have Ellaria kill Myrcella and have his son as a hostage in the capital… um… I dunno, but even though the Quentyn chapters were boring, at least they were part of a pretty badass plan that Doran had been planing for over a decade. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/715 "2015-06-15T20:34:55Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Seriously. We can be fairly certain that Cersei’s humiliation will be far more lovingly dwelt on than was the humiliation of the septon. > > It will go on and on and on. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Well, that is how Martin wrote it. I haven’t read the books.\* I was just going on the precedent the show–and apparently the books–have set for doing the crowd-pleasing thing. (Yes, even the “shocking” deaths of major characters. Who could fail to notice how much pride many take in being fans of an allegedly Unconventional franchise?) \*but don’t care about spoilers. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/716 "2015-06-15T21:22:49Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I haven’t read the books.\* I was just going on the precedent the show–and apparently the books–have set for doing the crowd-pleasing thing. (Yes, even the “shocking” deaths of major characters. Who could fail to notice how much pride many take in being fans of an allegedly Unconventional franchise?) So… if the show does something fans would want, that’s crowd-pleasing. But if they do things the fans would NOT want, that’s also crowd-pleasing? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/717 "2015-06-15T21:44:42Z")
I don’t think Lady Stoneheart is likely to come to the show at all. Apparently like with Kit Harington, they also told Michelle Fairley that [she’s done](http://www.ew.com/article/2014/06/25/michelle-fairley-24-lady-stoneheart): > [@](#): > > **You couldn’t have missed the online furor over the lack of Lady Stoneheart in the Thrones finale. Were you surprised by that attention?** > > I actually haven’t seen any of that. I don’t look that stuff up. I avoid it like the plague. I was totally unaware. > > **There was a lot of online conversation. I heard third-hand that you were basically told that it’s not likely to ever happen. Is that accurate?** > > Yeah, the character’s dead. She’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/718 "2015-06-15T21:50:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, the character’s dead. She’s dead. Which could also be a dodge, because of course, nobody’s debating _that_ point. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/719 "2015-06-15T21:56:02Z")
> [@troub](#): > > Which could also be a dodge, because of course, nobody’s debating _that_ point. It’s funny because Harington [said exactly the same thing](http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview), repeating it twice: > [@](#): > > But I’ve been told I’m dead. I’m dead. I’ve been thinking about this and it’s entirely possible that he’s being truthful and the actor won’t be coming back but since he’s known in the books to have The Gift of the skinchangers, possessing Ghost seems most likely to me (moreso than a Red Resurrection). ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/720 "2015-06-15T22:11:17Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I haven’t read the books.\* I was just going on the precedent the show–and apparently the books–have set for doing the crowd-pleasing thing. (Yes, even the “shocking” deaths of major characters. Who could fail to notice how much pride many take in being fans of an allegedly Unconventional franchise?) > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > So… if the show does something fans would want, that’s crowd-pleasing. But if they do things the fans would NOT want, that’s also crowd-pleasing? You’ve never heard or read of people admiringly saying things like: _‘the amazing thing about this, is that anything can happen–anyone can die!’_… and also expressing sadness that a particular character was killed off? Writers have been employing appeals to sadness, pity, and grief–pathos–for centuries. The technique is well-known to be…crowd-pleasing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539.md?page=37)