# Game of Thrones (season 5) BOOK SPOILERS!! TV SPOILERS! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539 "2015-04-13T02:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/741 "2015-06-16T13:56:17Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This is a weird nitpick. She was the queen for 15 years and she is still queen mother. There’s nothing off about common people still thinking of her as being [a] queen and referring to her as such. I also think this is where the incongruity of the show and books rears its head. In the books, of course, Cersei is ruling Westeros as Queen, even if her son is actually King. In the show, Tommen is older and is expressing a desire to rule (somewhat) rather than playing with Ser Pounce. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/742 "2015-06-16T14:21:04Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > To my knowledge all the major deaths have been lifted right from the books\*. I’ve read some comparisons between books and show and they are (so far) relatively minor. I assume Jon/Stannis/Theon/Sansa are similar. > > - > - Shireen’s death is not in the books but according to the directors Martin told them that she will die in future books. As stated, Shireen’s death may (and most likely will) be entirely different in the other medium. There is also a chance it’ll happen “off screen”, so not really a major plot twist, which is what you were accusing Martin of doing (killing as a plot twist). What happens to Jon in the show happens in the books (though for a much better reasons, IMO). But the rest are still alive and kicking in the books. So no death/plot twists there. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/743 "2015-06-16T15:22:39Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > \*\*Fair Rarity’s \*\* final paragraph sums up my feelings pretty eloquently. The series has diven off a cliff, and unless there are some drastic changes in the writing team the next season will be even more of an incoherent mess. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised if the show gets cancelled after season 6… That’s hilarious, the show is more popular now than its ever been. I’m fairly sure it is HBOs most popular show ever. IMO that was the best season yet, and the ratings seem to back me up. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/744 "2015-06-16T15:24:55Z")
Something just occurred to me: Martin uses a number of viewpoint characters, but it’s a limited number. So; Has any viewpoint character died in the books so far? How about in the show? That could be a big clue about where he’s going with the story. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/745 "2015-06-16T15:27:02Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Something just occurred to me: Martin uses a number of viewpoint characters, but it’s a limited number. So; > > Has any viewpoint character died in the books so far? > > How about in the show? > > That could be a big clue about where he’s going with the story. Ned and Cat were both viewpoint characters, Selmy also but he’s only dead in the show. The kingsguard who was in love with Arienne was also a viewpoint character dead in the books. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/746 "2015-06-16T15:28:21Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Something just occurred to me: Martin uses a number of viewpoint characters, but it’s a limited number. So; > > Has any viewpoint character died in the books so far? Um, Ned? Edit: Ninja’d by **DigitalC** ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/747 "2015-06-16T15:42:23Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Ned and Cat were both viewpoint characters Speaking of, we saw the Red Wedding through Cat’s eyes and it was even more heartbreaking than in the show. I’m sad that they didn’t find a way of including “Not my hair, Ned loves my hair” into that scene. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/748 "2015-06-16T15:44:55Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Speaking of, we saw the Red Wedding through Cat’s eyes and it was even more heartbreaking than in the show. I’m sad that they didn’t find a way of including “Not my hair, Ned loves my hair” into that scene. I believe that was the only view point character killed during their own view point chapter. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/749 "2015-06-16T15:46:51Z")
Well Jon as well… at least first death ;). ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/750 "2015-06-16T15:50:58Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if the show gets cancelled after season 6… GoT season 5 finale had 8.11 million viewers, an all time high for the series. The overall ratings have gone up every season, albeit by a much smaller amount this last one. So I find it quite unlikely there could be enough falloff next season to cause cancellation. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/751 "2015-06-16T15:59:00Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Ned and Cat were both viewpoint characters, Selmy also but he’s only dead in the show. The kingsguard who was in love with Arienne was also a viewpoint character dead in the books. Okay…so much for that idea, then. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/752 "2015-06-16T16:00:19Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Well Jon as well… at least first death ;). Hell of a time for me to forget about that one. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/753 "2015-06-16T16:14:24Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I believe that was the only view point character killed during their own view point chapter. Well Ned’s was shown simultaneously from about four different viewpoints, one right after the other, starting with Ned’s himself. Also, who was the kid who tried to released the dragons in Mereen? I forget. Anyway, he was a viewpoint character who died. Also, to comment on someone else, I was expecting and really shocked that Lady Stoneheart didn’t show up at the end of Season 3. I kept waiting for it but it never happened. And then I figured “ok, it’s going to be a nice reveal in the middle of Season 4.” That didn’t happen either. It’s not going to happen. I’ve resigned myself to it. Which is disappointing because: A) the reveal would have been awesome B) It was already set up with the brotherhood and Arya earlier in the season C) The lack of LSH signals that she doesn’t play a huge role in the books either, which is disappointing. I would have thought her role was to eliminate every single one of the Freys from the face of Westeros. But maybe I’m wrong there. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/754 "2015-06-16T16:27:03Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Also, who was the kid who tried to released the dragons in Mereen? I forget. Anyway, he was a viewpoint character who died. Quentyn Martell - whose existence was to show how far out Doran Martell had planned out his revenge. > [@](#): > > I would have thought her role was to eliminate every single one of the Freys from the face of Westeros. But maybe I’m wrong there. Well, even if that does happen in the books, the show may feel it isn’t important enough to show that the Freys get theirs. Martin has mentioned that he wouldn’t have included LS if he didn’t think she was important, so I’m sure she’s going to end up doing something. ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/755 "2015-06-16T16:31:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But this just shows that _everyone_ in GoT has a room temp IQ. Even Jon. Ok, Jon _knows_ half the Nights watch hates his guts. He \*knows \*there are Free Folks that still want him dead. He has _seen_ horrible undead monsters come to kill the Commander. Yet, he doesnt take his Dire wolf everywhere he goes. Damn, I wouldn’t go to the privy without Ghost. My minor quibble with the TV version of this storyline is that Jon is so clearly in the right. It makes absolutely no sense to oppose his plans with the Wildlings after what they saw at Hardhome. There were multiple Night’s Watch soldiers who witnessed what happened, and you’d think they’d be at Castle Black vehemently telling everyone what they saw and that Jon’s plan was right. At least in the book there were no eyewitnesses present, just a letter after the fact (I think). And the decision to attack the Boltons was the one that finally led to the mutiny. That made the mutiny much more reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/756 "2015-06-16T17:02:35Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This is a weird nitpick. She was the queen for 15 years and she is still queen mother. There’s nothing off about common people still thinking of her as being [a] queen and referring to her as such. Except she isn’t actually the queen. Hasn’t been for as far as I can, two or three years according to the show. Not the queen. Other woman Queen. Not married to king. Factual. Bit weird to call it a nitpick. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/757 "2015-06-16T17:04:27Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I believe that was the only view point character killed during their own view point chapter. Well, killed. But still dead? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/758 "2015-06-16T17:10:17Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > Except she isn’t actually the queen. Hasn’t been for as far as I can, two or three years according to the show. Not the queen. Other woman Queen. Not married to king. Factual. > > Bit weird to call it a nitpick. Right. And if in some fashion the show is claiming that she is factually the queen, that would be a mistake. What the show is claiming and you are complaining about (I guess) is that people in casual conversation REFER to her as “the queen”. Which is entirely plausible, and even in fact likely given the ages and personalities of the people involved. Certainly it’s something that she herself would have overtly or covertly encouraged, and until recently her encouragements had quite a bit of weight behind them. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/759 "2015-06-16T17:14:48Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Ned and Cat were both viewpoint characters, Selmy also but he’s only dead in the show. The kingsguard who was in love with Arienne was also a viewpoint character dead in the books. There is a distinction about “being killed” and “being dead”. I think the rules are the prologue, the viewpoint character dies. I’m not sure about the epilogue chapter. I think that could hold true too. Until Red Wedding no Viewpoint character got killed _in their own viewpoint_. So viewpoint characters did die, but if they died in their own viewpoint, they tended to live. Given that Lady Stoneheart came back, the rules can be justified still. Jons attack in the show is much more clear. The books it is a bit more ambiguous. Some even argue that it could have been “not Jon” and something weird is going on with glamours that chapter. However, he loses conciousness after third or fourth stab. In the TV show, it looks like he has actually died, eyes open, staring off into death… He could be taking Lady Stonehearts place in being rezzed by melisandr, who at least is at Castle Black. Or warg into Ghost, who’s been a shit protector in recent times… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/760 "2015-06-16T17:18:20Z")
I, too, expected Lady Stoneheart to be revealed in the last minute or two of the season finale. That would’ve been sweet. Both Cersei and Margaery are, in both books and show, queens right now. Cersei is the queen regent (books) while Margaery is queen consort (both books and show). Cersei also retains the title of queen as the unremarried widow of a king. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539.md?page=39)