# Game of Thrones (season 5) BOOK SPOILERS!! TV SPOILERS! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539 "2015-04-13T02:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/781 "2015-06-16T21:15:08Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Does Azor Ahai 😉 That reminds me…shouldn’t the show actually let the viewers in on that\*? Especially if they resurrect Jon to be more than ‘Jon Snow’? It wouldn’t be particularly dramatic if Jon Snow just came back as himself. \*More than a flashback. I can’t even see how they would do that. and more than a story by Sam. They really should do a NuBSG-type special just to cover that. It would make bank. HBO has to know that. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/782 "2015-06-16T21:18:40Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Actually you’re flat-out wrong. She is Queen Regent, acting ruler of the Seven Kingdoms. I mentioned this in the show thread and it’s even more relevant here because she explicitly reminds people in the book **constantly** , whenever they make a reference to “Margaery” and “Queen” in the same sentence, that no, _she_ (Cersei) is queen. Tommen may be king in name but he is not old enough yet to rule in his own right, therefore Cersei is the acting ruler on his behalf. How can you have read the books and not know this? It’s a little more complicated. Joffrey ordered Ned beheaded and in theory, Ceresi should have been able to countermand the order. As far as their present-day situation is concerned…I’d say in any situation involving conflicting orders between Tommen, Kevan, Ceresi and Margaery…whoever has the most money and bought guards would win. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/783 "2015-06-16T21:34:47Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > That reminds me…shouldn’t the show actually let the viewers in on that\*? Especially if they resurrect Jon to be more than ‘Jon Snow’? It wouldn’t be particularly dramatic if Jon Snow just came back as himself. > > \*More than a flashback. I can’t even see how they would do that. and more than a story by Sam. They really should do a NuBSG-type special just to cover that. It would make bank. HBO has to know that. Well, Snow would likely come back as a Lady Stoneheart like less than himself character. If they aren’t going to do much on Azor Ahai, except hey he’s a legendary hero, I guess there is no reason to go flashback. The main story of Azor Ahai is the creation of Lightbringer - which involved sacrificing the most important thing in the world to Azor Ahai (his wife). It seems closer to Stannis sacrificing his daughter than anything Jon has done. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/784 "2015-06-16T22:33:26Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > That reminds me…shouldn’t the show actually let the viewers in on that\*? Especially if they resurrect Jon to be more than ‘Jon Snow’? It wouldn’t be particularly dramatic if Jon Snow just came back as himself. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Well, Snow would likely come back as a Lady Stoneheart like less than himself character. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you… [Jon Ice](http://i.imgur.com/hMDTuv8.jpg). _Cue Thriller music_ ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/785 "2015-06-17T00:02:25Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I, too, expected Lady Stoneheart to be revealed in the last minute or two of the season finale. That would’ve been sweet. > > Both Cersei and Margaery are, in both books and show, queens right now. Cersei is the queen regent (books) while Margaery is queen consort (both books and show). Cersei also retains the title of queen as the unremarried widow of a king. IRL Queen Elizabeth II’s mother outlived her husband by 50 yrs and was still considered to be a queen, just not _the_ queen. And the only she had Queen Mother after her name was to avoid confusion with her daughter of the same name, otherwise she would’ve been just plain Queen _[name]_ like other dowager queens. ---
**Author:** ![Meme\_Chose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Meme\_Chose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meme_Chose)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/786 "2015-06-17T00:03:40Z")
Melisandre was bundled up in a cloak when she returned to Castle Black. No more divine connection? No more special powers? ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/787 "2015-06-17T01:21:03Z")
There’s a [comment](http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/game-of-thrones-finale-cliffhangers) today from one of the people from the show where he says > [@](#): > > Stannis is dead. “ **It would have been gratuitous** ,” Nutter told Variety about his reasons for cutting away before Brienne’s sword separated Stannis’s head from his body. “You really got a sense that Stannis had nothing else to live for. Brienne’s lifelong mission had come to an end. It’s a situation in which Stannis was ready to die and prepared to die.” (Yes we’re sorry about it, too.) Are you fucking kidding me? Like… isn’t **Gratuitous** the subtitle to just about everything in this show? Sexposition, Talisa and baby Ned, Sansa’s fucking RIDICULOUS MARRIAGE THAT DID NOT NEED TO HAPPEN, Trant’s eyes… And watching CHILD-MURDERING STANNIS get killed would be **gratuitous**? Maybe they didn’t really kill him, but don’t try to pass it off as some kind of honorable, book-Stannis-esque act of mercy. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/788 "2015-06-17T02:51:22Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Well, Snow would likely come back as a Lady Stoneheart like less than himself character. > > If they aren’t going to do much on Azor Ahai, except hey he’s a legendary hero, I guess there is no reason to go flashback. The main story of Azor Ahai is the creation of Lightbringer - which involved sacrificing the most important thing in the world to Azor Ahai (his wife). It seems closer to Stannis sacrificing his daughter than anything Jon has done. What?? “And Jon Snow so loved the world, he gave his only life for the Wildlings\* where no one else would lift a finger to help them. He’s the only one who wanted to stop Craster from giving away babies. Jon Snow is Jesus damnit!!!” \*In a roundabout way. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/789 "2015-06-17T03:01:37Z")
Azor Ahai is totally not Jesus like though ;). ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/790 "2015-06-17T03:26:02Z")
Azor Ahai’s story always seemed a bit [Abrahamic to me.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_of_Isaac) Of course even the Old Testament God wasn’t so cruel as to insist Abrham actually go through with the child sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/791 "2015-06-17T03:26:22Z")
> [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > There’s a [comment](http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/game-of-thrones-finale-cliffhangers) today from one of the people from the show where he says > > Are you fucking kidding me? Like… isn’t **Gratuitous** the subtitle to just about everything in this show? Sexposition, Talisa and baby Ned, Sansa’s fucking RIDICULOUS MARRIAGE THAT DID NOT NEED TO HAPPEN, Trant’s eyes… And watching CHILD-MURDERING STANNIS get killed would be **gratuitous**? > > Maybe they didn’t really kill him, but don’t try to pass it off as some kind of honorable, book-Stannis-esque act of mercy. Yes, I mean-\*\* Gratuitous \*\*is this show and HBO’s middle name. Are they kidding? But I guess that settles that. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/792 "2015-06-17T20:10:26Z")
Yeah, delicately not showing Stannis’s decapitation seems like a pretty odd place to draw the line for a show already awash in frequent rape and gruesome death. GOT, filming at the Alcazar and Spanish politics today: [Fans Obsessed With 'Game Of Thrones' Seek Parallels In Spanish Politics : Parallels : NPR](http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/06/15/413676337/obsessed-game-of-thrones-fans-seek-plot-parallels-in-spanish-politics) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/793 "2015-06-17T20:46:44Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yeah, delicately not showing Stannis’s decapitation seems like a pretty odd place to draw the line for a show already awash in frequent rape and gruesome death. Yeah, I don’t buy the ‘we couldn’t show it because it would have been gratuitous’ line, either. My guess is that at some meeting, someone said “we need the viewers to leave the season finale with _no fewer than five burning questions_, to make sure they keep talking about the show–and most critically, to make sure that they’re willing to pay for HBO for season six. For one of them, how about cutting away before the killing blow hits Stannis?” Their reasoning was probably _at least_ that purely cynical. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/794 "2015-06-17T20:58:55Z")
Well Sansa does know Rickon and Bran are alive now, and Theon knows about Bran being north of the wall. So “find my brother and the north will support you” would follow the books and allow the Stannis story to continue. Plus it would be nice if someone acknowledged the existence of Rickon. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/795 "2015-06-17T21:01:43Z")
[QUOTE=DigitalC] So “find my brother and the north will support you” would follow the books and allow the Stannis story to continue. Plus it would be nice if someone acknowledged the existence of Rickon. [/QUOTE] Nobody ever thinks of Rickon… it’s always Sansa, Sansa, Sansa!!! ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/796 "2015-06-17T21:08:55Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Well Sansa does know Rickon and Bran are alive now, and Theon knows about Bran being north of the wall. So “find my brother and the north will support you” would follow the books and allow the Stannis story to continue. Plus it would be nice if someone acknowledged the existence of Rickon. Also considering that in the books, finding Rickon is what Davos is up to anyway would allow for some more dovetailing between the mediums. I mean I guess you could do a Brienne & Davos team, but Davos always seems to be work best as a foil for Stannis, IMO (best bromance in Westeros ;)). ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/797 "2015-06-18T01:31:30Z")
I would LOVE a Brienne and Davos team… written by GRRM perhaps or the ghosts of the S1 writers. I think Brienne will find Sansa and they’ll end up at the Wall where Sansa can be traumatized by Jon’s death (NOT ENOUGH LEMONCAKES IN THE WORLD FOR THAT POOR GIRL) and she’ll cry and say “but my other brothers are still alive” and there will go Davos. Brienne will take her back to the Vale (rumors of Vale casting out there) and maybe Pod can take the black and be the new LC. His member has to be as big as Tormund’s (HAR!) so that might be convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/798 "2015-06-18T01:43:08Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Well Sansa does know Rickon and Bran are alive now, and Theon knows about Bran being north of the wall. So “find my brother and the north will support you” would follow the books and allow the Stannis story to continue. Plus it would be nice if someone acknowledged the existence of Rickon. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Nobody ever thinks of Rickon… it’s always Sansa, Sansa, Sansa!!! Where the hell is Rickon anyway? I know he’s not with Bran - the book chapters only describe him as being with Jojen, Meera, Hodor, and (for a while) Coldhands on his adventure north of the Wall. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/799 "2015-06-18T02:10:45Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Nobody ever thinks of Rickon… it’s always Sansa, Sansa, Sansa!!! It’s the story… of a lovely lady… who was married to a sadist with a sword… > [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > I would LOVE a Brienne and Davos team… Me, too. That could be _awesome_. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539/800 "2015-06-18T05:10:44Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Where the hell is Rickon anyway? I know he’s not with Bran - the book chapters only describe him as being with Jojen, Meera, Hodor, and (for a while) Coldhands on his adventure north of the Wall. Supposedly he’s on Skagos (where the rumored cannibalistic wildlings live). At least that is what Wyman Manderly tells Davos. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-5-book-spoilers-tv-spoilers/717539.md?page=41)