# Game of Thrones Season 6 open show/book discussion thread \[spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 25, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058 "2016-04-25T02:16:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/161 "2016-05-11T13:16:56Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Ned was there to rescue his sister who had been kidnapped by Prince Rhaegar. Arthur Dayne was defending her from being “rescued” on the orders of the prince. Yes, but why? She’s not Rhaegar’s wife. She’s not in danger from Ned. If Rhaegar is dead, she’s not going back to him in any case. Why is it so important that Lyanna be protected by the people sworn to protect the royal family (of which she is not a member). [quoteThat was obvious to both of them. The only question was whether or not it was actually a kidnapping, which was irrelevant anyway so far as Ser Arthur was concerned. As a Kingsguard, he was just following orders.[/quote] Was he though? I think, given that they could otherwise be at the Trident keeping Rhaegar alive, the orders to be somewhere else had to really matter. If Rhaegar had ordered Dayne to hide in a cellar, he wouldn’t just have obeyed. > [@](#): > > At this point, Ned had no idea there was a newborn child inside the tower, and Arthur had no reason to tell him. Lyanna is his sister. Even if she hasn’t told Ned, and he hasn’t so much as laid eyes on her in the last 6 months, she’s been in a relationship with Rhaegar, she’s been taken to a secluded place and two (or three?) of the Kingsguard are protecting her when they could usefully be employed elsewhere. It wouldn’t take much in the way of searing insight for Ned to be sure beyond a reasonable doubt that she was in the family way. I understand why its important for the story that nobody discusses pregnancy or the succession - God knows the series/novels wouldn’t be what they are without the delayed reveal of R+L=J. But what makes sense as an impressionistic flashback while Ned is sick and in prison seems a little more contrived when we’re treated to a live re-enactment. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/162 "2016-05-11T13:22:43Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Ned doesn’t know there’s a child at this point. His sister was kidnapped quite a long while ago. > > Both characters knew what was up, and that the only way to resolve their conflicting motivations was a fight. Spelling it out like that would just be exposition. > > There was clearly regret on both sides. Neither wanted to kill the other, but they were put into a situation where they had to. They all clearly knew what was up and that a fight would be necessary. There was clearly regret. But Ned \*does \*attempt to talk Dayne out of fighting - pointing out that his cause is lost in any case. And if he can do that, he can point out that he won’t harm Lyanna or the child so there’s no question of the duty to protect being broken. (Robert claims Lyanna was kidnapped. There are hints in the books that Ned knows or at least suspects she went willingly. And as I say, it’s hardly impossible to guess that only a child justifies the presence of the Kingsguard.) ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/163 "2016-05-11T13:31:40Z")
Don’t forget that Lyanna’s kidnapping was the whole impetus for Robert’s Rebellion and the whole war. It certainly makes sense that Ned might think that Rhaegar had assigned three Kingsguard to guard the object of his obsession. Also keep in mind that Ned doesn’t get a lot of time to think about this. After all, he expresses surprise that the Kingsguard are present in the first place at the Tower of Joy. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/164 "2016-05-11T13:47:57Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Don’t forget that Lyanna’s kidnapping was the whole impetus for Robert’s Rebellion and the whole war. > It certainly makes sense that Ned might think that Rhaegar had assigned three Kingsguard to guard the object of his obsession. > > Also keep in mind that Ned doesn’t get a lot of time to think about this. After all, he expresses surprise that the Kingsguard are present in the first place at the Tower of Joy. I don’t remember that surprise from the books, where the whole encounter has a grim inevitability. But you’re right about the show. \*But \*if he’s surprised, it’s still a bit weird that he doesn’t explore that a little. And if he does think it’s only Lyanna there, that’s even more reason to argue that he clearly isn’t going to harm her so there’s no need to fight. “Why are you here? My sister needs no protection from me.” “Perhaps. But here we are. Now it begins.” “No, really. She’s my sister. Her boyfriend is dead. The war is lost. Enough men have died today. Plus, it sounds like she’s in a lot of pain. Are you sure fighting me is the best way of protecting her?” “I _said_, now it begins.” Again, it’s one thing when Ned is flashing back, remembering what is emotionally significant. But when it’s done “live” and we’re apparently getting the dialogue verbatim then you can see the inner workings a little bit. (And again, I fully agree it has to be this way.) ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/165 "2016-05-11T14:19:46Z")
Rhaegar knew he was leaving Lyanna at a very precarious time. His orders would be not just to protect her, but also the baby and the secret of the baby’s existence. The Targaryen family was at the brink of extinction here, and Rhaegar could have seen a vision or dream or something of just how important the baby was going to be. Rhaegar was obsessed with the prophecy of the prince who was promised, perhaps he had some reason to believe this baby would fulfill the prophecy. For all we know, he legitimately married Lyanna and Jon is a direct heir to the throne. Also, keep in mind Robert and Ned are the enemies. Their job is to wipe out Targaryens. Ned is not going to harm Lyanna, but Robert would certainly have the baby killed. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/166 "2016-05-11T14:21:38Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > I don’t remember that surprise from the books, where the whole encounter has a grim inevitability. But you’re right about the show. \*But \*if he’s surprised, it’s still a bit weird that he doesn’t explore that a little. And if he does think it’s only Lyanna there, that’s even more reason to argue that he clearly isn’t going to harm her so there’s no need to fight. > > “Why are you here? My sister needs no protection from me.” Actually, to the very present, there are cultures that insist the only proper way to deal with the shame of an unmarried woman having sex is for one of her male relatives to kill her. Not that there’s been any sign that holds in Westeros as a whole (definitely not in Dorne), but hey, the Starks are traditionalists, following the Old Gods, so who knows? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/167 "2016-05-11T14:22:16Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Rhaegar knew he was leaving Lyanna at a very precarious time. His orders would be not just to protect her, but also the baby and the secret of the baby’s existence. The Targaryen family was at the brink of extinction here, and Rhaegar could have seen a vision or dream or something of just how important the baby was going to be. Rhaegar was obsessed with the prophecy of the prince who was promised, perhaps he had some reason to believe this baby would fulfill the prophecy. For all we know, he legitimately married Lyanna and Jon is a direct heir to the throne. > > Also, keep in mind Robert and Ned are the enemies. Their job is to wipe out Targaryens. Ned is not going to harm Lyanna, but Robert would certainly have the baby killed. If Rhaegar legitimately married Lyanna, then as far as the Kingsguard were concerned, little baby Jon wasn’t the heir to the throne, he was the rightful King. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/168 "2016-05-11T14:28:04Z")
> [@](#): > > If Rhaegar legitimately married Lyanna, then as far as the Kingsguard were concerned, little baby Jon wasn’t the heir to the throne, he was the rightful King. You’re right! I was thinking the Tower of Joy was before the sack of King’s Landing, but I suppose it would have been after. Ned even mentions that Rhaegar and Aerys are both dead. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/169 "2016-05-11T14:34:22Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Actually, to the very present, there are cultures that insist the only proper way to deal with the shame of an unmarried woman having sex is for one of her male relatives to kill her. > > Not that there’s been any sign that holds in Westeros as a whole (definitely not in Dorne), but hey, the Starks are traditionalists, following the Old Gods, so who knows? Given the brothels, and the upper-class affairs, and the mere sniggering which resulted from teh revelations of highborn incest, and the fact that it never crosses the mind of Ned Stark, the most honourable man in Westeros, and the total absence of any sign of a virginity-fetishising honour culture in any of the books or the TV show, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that I know. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/170 "2016-05-11T14:40:39Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Revisiting these scenes on TV has kind of highlighted how needlessly obscure the dialogue is. > > Ned is a blunt man, always has been. Arthur Dayne is portrayed as an honourable and decent guy. The fact that at no point do we get dialogue like: > > “I know you are here to protect the baby. This is my sister’s child. You can trust me not to harm it.” > > “That child is Prince Rhaegar’s and the true heir to the Iron Throne. I am sworn to protect it with my life and though I may trust you I do not trust Robert Baratheon.” > > becomes even more unrealistic on review. I know there’s a “We are men of honour, and bound to our vows come what may. Let us not insult each other by attempts at persuasion” thing going on, but that doesn’t preclude people using the words “child” “Rhaegar” and “sister”. I completely disagree, they talked how people there would talk. All that exposition would only serve to inform the viewer, not the people there having the conversation. It’d be forced and awkward. We don’t know if Lyanna and Rhaegar were married, but I don’t think it matters. Bastard or not Robert would want Jon dead. Reason enough to have bodyguards. Plus, Rhaegar was way into prophecy and thought his children were important parts in the war against the Others. In fact he was interested in Lyanna specifically to get her pregnant for that purpose (Ellia was sickly and probably couldn’t have other children). If you think your kid is The Prince that was Promise, you better send the best swordsman in the realm to guard him. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/171 "2016-05-11T14:51:55Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I completely disagree, they talked how people there would talk. All that exposition would only serve to inform the viewer, not the people there having the conversation. It’d be forced and awkward. I’m obviously in the minority on this one, but for me it seems forced and awkward for them to have a whole conversation about why they need to fight without ever mentioning who they’re fighting to protect/rescue. > [@](#): > > We don’t know if Lyanna and Rhaegar were married, but I don’t think it matters. Bastard or not Robert would want Jon dead. Reason enough to have bodyguards. True, but Ned would never, ever stand to see his sister’s child killed. Not a chance. And whether he could convince the Kingsguard of that or not, he could at least mention it when he’s trying to talk them out of fighting him. > [@](#): > > Plus, Rhaegar was way into prophecy and thought his children were important parts in the war against the Others. In fact he was interested in Lyanna specifically to get her pregnant for that purpose (Ellia was sickly and probably couldn’t have other children). If you think your kid is The Prince that was Promise, you better send the best swordsman in the realm to guard him. Absolutely. _Of course_ the Kingsguard are there for a reason. It just seems a little odd that that reason wasn’t even hinted at in the conversation about whether they needed to fight or not. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/172 "2016-05-11T15:08:32Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > I don’t remember that surprise from the books, where the whole encounter has a grim inevitability. But you’re right about the show. \*But \*if he’s surprised, it’s still a bit weird that he doesn’t explore that a little. And if he does think it’s only Lyanna there, that’s even more reason to argue that he clearly isn’t going to harm her so there’s no need to fight. Look at it from the point of view of each of the principal actors: Ned has just revolted against his king and prince, and fought and won a war in which his overriding goal is to retrieve his kidnapped sister. Now he is at the end of his quest. He knows his sister is in the tower, and three Kingsguard are all that stands in his way. He is not interested in having a discussion. As far as Ned is concerned, they are either going to stand aside or they are going to die (or he is going to die trying). And from their reaction to his arrival, it is obvious that the Kingsguard have no intention of stepping aside. Therefore the fight is on, with no need for needless conversation. As for Arthur, he is under strict orders to defend Lyanna and her unborn child. Since receiving those orders, he knows that the King and Prince are dead, so he now knows that the child is one of the few surviving heirs to the throne (after Viserys). He knows that if Robert gets his hands on the child, then it will be killed. He is going to defend to the death the child and his mother. He has no reason to have a conversation with the seven armed men who have just arrived, and it really doesn’t matter that one of them is Lyanna’s brother. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/173 "2016-05-11T15:10:11Z")
The Kingsguard follow orders. Period. (Jaime notwithstanding) Ned knows this. He knows that it is futile to try and talk them into disobeying their orders. Also, Ned being Ned, I don’t know that he would even consider trying to talk honorable men into dishonor. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/174 "2016-05-11T15:18:29Z")
> [@robby](#): > > …As for Arthur, he is under strict orders to defend Lyanna and her unborn child. Since receiving those orders, he knows that the King and Prince are dead, so he now knows that the child is one of the few surviving heirs to the throne (after Viserys). He knows that if Robert gets his hands on the child, then it will be killed. He is going to defend to the death the child and his mother. He has no reason to have a conversation with the seven armed men who have just arrived, and it really doesn’t matter that one of them is Lyanna’s brother. Correction: As Rhaegar’s sole surviving child, Lyanna’s newborn child in the Tower is _first_ in line for the throne, ahead of Viserys, which makes my point even stronger. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/175 "2016-05-11T15:50:58Z")
But: how could Rhaegar and Lyanna have been married? He was married to Elia. There is some reference in the books to past Targaryan kings who married two of their sisters, but no indication that one can have two wives at the same time in present-day Westeros. Yes, Elia was murdered, but that happened after Rhaegar was killed at the Trident. And if they weren’t married, then any offspring of Rhaegar and Lyanna’s would necessarily be a bastard, and thus ineligible to stand in line for the throne. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/176 "2016-05-11T15:52:38Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Look at it from the point of view of each of the principal actors: > > Ned has just revolted against his king and prince, and fought and won a war in which his overriding goal is to retrieve his kidnapped sister. Now he is at the end of his quest. He knows his sister is in the tower, and three Kingsguard are all that stands in his way. He is not interested in having a discussion. As far as Ned is concerned, they are either going to stand aside or they are going to die (or he is going to die trying). And from their reaction to his arrival, it is obvious that the Kingsguard have no intention of stepping aside. Therefore the fight is on, with no need for needless conversation. > [@JSexton](#): > > The Kingsguard follow orders. Period. (Jaime notwithstanding) Ned knows this. He knows that it is futile to try and talk them into disobeying their orders. Also, Ned being Ned, I don’t know that he would even consider trying to talk honorable men into dishonor. And yet there is a conversation. They don’t just silently start fighting. And in that conversation, Ned discusses reasons why the Kingsguard should not fight. Why they should - honourably - stand aside. Which is why it’s striking that there are perfectly good reasons for them to stand aside that he doesn’t mention. > [@](#): > > As for Arthur, he is under strict orders to defend Lyanna and her unborn child. Since receiving those orders, he knows that the King and Prince are dead, so he now knows that the child is one of the few surviving heirs to the throne (after Viserys). He knows that if Robert gets his hands on the child, then it will be killed. He is going to defend to the death the child and his mother. He has no reason to have a conversation with the seven armed men who have just arrived, and it really doesn’t matter that one of them is Lyanna’s brother. This makes sense. I can see reasons why he should discuss the child with Ned (after all, Ned actually does protect Jon from Robert, and co-opting him to protect the child in the event Arthur loses is not a terrible idea). But not blurting it out in front of everyone is sensible enough. I still have a nagging feeling that Ned could plausibly have mentioned it, but given that it has to be hidden from the reader/viewer it’s fair enough. (Although to be fair, because we’re only having the flashback now in the TV show, there’s not \*huge \*value in hiding it. It will come out this season, surely.) ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/177 "2016-05-11T16:21:55Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Correction: As Rhaegar’s sole surviving child, Lyanna’s newborn child in the Tower is _first_ in line for the throne, ahead of Viserys, which makes my point even stronger. Are you sure about this? Rhaegar died before Aerys, so he was never king. You’re saying the grandson of the king is first in line before the king’s own son, assuming the grandson comes from the first born? **shantih** , as you note, Targaryens have had multiple wives in the past. That’s all there is to it. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/178 "2016-05-11T16:35:57Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > But: how could Rhaegar and Lyanna have been married? He was married to Elia. There is some reference in the books to past Targaryan kings who married two of their sisters, but no indication that one can have two wives at the same time in present-day Westeros. Yes, Elia was murdered, but that happened after Rhaegar was killed at the Trident. Do we know what Westeros’s laws are on bigamy for royals? > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Are you sure about this? Rhaegar died before Aerys, so he was never king. You’re saying the grandson of the king is first in line before the king’s own son, assuming the grandson comes from the first born? Yes, I believe that’s generally how it works. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/179 "2016-05-11T16:46:21Z")
Looks like a new Arianne chapter (as she’s getting closer to Aegon and Connington storming Storm’s End) has been put up on GRRM’s site. Hmm, where is the “Song of Ice and Fire” thread anyways: [http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/](http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/) ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058/180 "2016-05-11T16:49:16Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Do we know what Westeros’s laws are on bigamy for royals? Besides, if Targaryen prince wants to take a second wife, who, other than a Targaryen king, is going to tell him ‘No’ ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-6-open-show-book-discussion-thread-spoilers/753058.md?page=10)