# Game of Thrones Season 7 book / show open discussion thread \[spoilers all\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 15, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321 "2017-07-15T15:50:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/61 "2017-07-31T02:23:23Z")
Did it bother anyone that they made the Iron Bank backers of the slave trade in order to get them to back Cersei? They’re from Braavos, the city founded by freed slaves. No way! ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/62 "2017-07-31T02:57:44Z")
They’re totally not backing Cersei. I can smell that ruse from a mile away. Well, I don’t know what the ruse is exactly, but I’m fairly sure the Iron Bank does not have Cersei’s best interests at heart. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/63 "2017-07-31T02:59:09Z")
Eh… she makes quite a good point though regarding her debts being paid off by Dany. Dany would also be just as likely to say that was from the usurper, get it from Casterly Rock. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/64 "2017-07-31T03:12:06Z")
She promised to pay back the debt in a fortnight (two weeks). That’s a bold promise. How can she deliver? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/65 "2017-07-31T03:12:58Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > She promised to pay back the debt in a fortnight (two weeks). That’s a bold promise. How can she deliver? Well she did just take the richest region in Westeros. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/66 "2017-07-31T03:54:39Z")
I’m changing my vote: Euron is the Valonqar. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/67 "2017-07-31T22:46:37Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I’m changing my vote: Euron is the Valonqar. Why? Little brother of Balon? How is it relevant to Cersei? I’m not convinced at all that he will have Cercei. In fact, despite his statements, I’m not convinced he _wants_ Cersei. Wasn’t he talking about marrying Daenerys last season? Or is it from the books? Or did I imagine it? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/68 "2017-07-31T22:52:40Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Why? Little brother of Balon? How is it relevant to Cersei? > > I’m not convinced at all that he will have Cercei. In fact, despite his statements, I’m not convinced he _wants_ Cersei. > > Wasn’t he talking about marrying Daenerys last season? Or is it from the books? Or did I imagine it? In the books it’s “the little brother” not “your little brother.” No reason it has to have anything to do with Cersei. Yes, last season Euron’s plan was to marry Dany. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/69 "2017-07-31T23:05:17Z")
There’s a report out there that HBO got a lot of data stolen including possibly scripts and future episodes of GOT. In the event you come across these, let’s please not discuss it in this thread - we can open up a new one if this becomes a thing people want to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/70 "2017-07-31T23:18:53Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > The thought is Blackfyre, i.e. descended from a Targaryen bastard. I missed the clues that he might be his son - in this theory is it assumed that fAegon is completely unaware of his true parentage, and genuinely believes he was switched (and Connington does too?) Illiryo told a story about a whore that looked just liked Dany that he ended up making his wife. The Theory is that she was a Blackfyre descendant and Illiryo married her once he found out because it makes zero sense for a super rich trader who owns lots of slaves to marry a whore for any other reason besides legitimizing whatever children they might have. There are A LOT more hints about this in books starting with the whole “mummers dragon” prophesies. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/71 "2017-08-01T00:02:11Z")
One of the more interesting (if not very likely) fan theories is that Aegon is actually legit, but Dany isn’t. There are weird clues like the lemon trees she remembers from childhood that don’t line up with her official back story, which suggest she may not be who she thinks she is. (Like maybe she is Illyrio’s daughter, which is why I thought of this.) It would destroy her entire identity and reason for everything she does if it turns out she isn’t actually a Targaryen who is owed a throne. And it would fit Martin’s style. But while I suspect there will be some twist regarding Daenerys’s past, I doubt it will be that exactly. Her Henry Tudor moment in Episode 1 this season makes me think she won’t start a new Targ dynasty at least. Unless the show has ignored the ending Martin gave them and dedicated the ending entirely to fan service. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/72 "2017-08-01T00:27:41Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Illiryo told a story about a whore that looked just liked Dany that he ended up making his wife. The Theory is that she was a Blackfyre descendant and Illiryo married her once he found out because it makes zero sense for a super rich trader who owns lots of slaves to marry a whore for any other reason besides legitimizing whatever children they might have. There are A LOT more hints about this in books starting with the whole “mummers dragon” prophesies. According to the Wiki, Serra had blue eyes while Dany has violet. It doesn’t discount the theory, though. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/73 "2017-08-01T01:50:57Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > One of the more interesting (if not very likely) fan theories is that Aegon is actually legit, but Dany isn’t. There are weird clues like the lemon trees she remembers from childhood that don’t line up with her official back story, which suggest she may not be who she thinks she is. (Like maybe she is Illyrio’s daughter, which is why I thought of this.) > > It would destroy her entire identity and reason for everything she does if it turns out she isn’t actually a Targaryen who is owed a throne. And it would fit Martin’s style. > > But while I suspect there will be some twist regarding Daenerys’s past, I doubt it will be that exactly. Her Henry Tudor moment in Episode 1 this season makes me think she won’t start a new Targ dynasty at least. Unless the show has ignored the ending Martin gave them and dedicated the ending entirely to fan service. What about lemon trees don’t fit with her backstory? As far as I remember, between leaving dragon stone and meeting up with illyrio, it was basically couch surfing all over the free cities. Almost any memory could fit. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/74 "2017-08-01T01:53:55Z")
Dany has to have some Targ blood. She’s a dragon-rider, hatched the eggs. She could be a Blackfyre, but she’s definitely not some random person descended from Valyrian stock. I think she is Aerys’s, but because I think Rhaegar married Lyanna, that would make Jon the true heir. Her identity and purpose is about claiming what is rightfully HERS, but it will turn out it’s NOT hers. What does she do then? Bend the knee to her nephew after all she went through? Was the short story about Greens and Blacks foreshadowing about a showdown between her and Jon about succession? The Valonquar\* is Jaime to me. He’s going to kill Cersei to save Brienne. Or to try to save KL (in the books) from going up in wildfyre cause Cersei is most definitely burning that motherfucker to the ground. I’m re-reading Wheel of Time and skimming ASOIAF (my ebooks are messed up and I’m tweaking the formatting). The similarities keep jumping out at me. I’m feeling like The Doom was a Breaking. The Wildlings are like Aiel. Wolfdreams are… wolfdreams. There’s a lot of hanging out in Telan’ar’rhiod. Seanchan are like more civilized Iron Islanders. Citadel=White Tower. Essos is Shara with more page time. \*forgive my spelling on all these words I know I got wrong ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/75 "2017-08-08T10:50:04Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > What about lemon trees don’t fit with her backstory? As far as I remember, between leaving dragon stone and meeting up with illyrio, it was basically couch surfing all over the free cities. Almost any memory could fit. I believe the theory is that there’s no lemon trees in Braavos. So the inference is that she grew up elsewhere, probably Dorne, because that’s where lemon trees typically grow. Here’s a link. Not read it myself, will do later. [Lemon tree theory](http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/84757-theory-danys-a-dunce-lemon-trees-dont-grow-in-braavos/) However, I suspect it’s a bit of a fuck up from GRRM. He might have done a couple here and there. Nobody is perfect. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/76 "2017-08-08T15:29:16Z")
If that is the last we see of Jamie, then perhaps the little brother prophecy does need some updating. Also some nice mercenary name dropping with the Golden Company there. In the books they also end up in Westeros, but as part of Aegon’s invasion party. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/77 "2017-08-08T15:44:18Z")
If Jamie was going to die he would have gotten burninated by the dragon, I think he’s going to get captured again. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/78 "2017-08-09T17:42:12Z")
Ok, this might be left field, but they’re lacking a twist since Jon got stabbed about 15 episodes ago: 1:14 into this video, exactly as the word “Mother” is said. [Look in the background](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mWKRXV7gFk) Discuss. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/79 "2017-08-09T17:59:09Z")
That does seem rather deliberate… I wonder if it’s just an easter egg or if it’s really happening. Seems late in the game. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321/80 "2017-08-09T19:01:51Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > Ok, this might be left field, but they’re lacking a twist since Jon got stabbed about 15 episodes ago: > > 1:14 into this video, exactly as the word “Mother” is said. > > [Look in the background](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mWKRXV7gFk) > > Discuss. I have not read the books but I enjoy reading this thread anyway. I don’t care about being spoiled. Would you be willing to explain? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-7-book-show-open-discussion-thread-spoilers-all/791321.md?page=5)