# Game of Thrones season 8 open show/book discussion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 14, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543 "2019-04-14T18:44:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/21 "2019-04-15T16:50:22Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That was a better episode than most of Season 7. > > Bran, however, remains an absolute black hole of enjoyment. Every second he’s on screen is a waste. I don’t know about “waste”. But he’s definitely a disturbing little creep now. You’d think he and his family would make more use of his god-like powers. But I guess he’s so off putting that even omniscience isn’t enough for people to overcome their reluctance to talk to him. I agree this was a great episode though. Fast paced, but no teleportation. A lot of big things happened, so I don’t know if I’d call it a “table setting” episode any more than any other episode. Sansa and her (ex?) husband reunited. Sam (and Jon) learned about the Scorching of the Tarlys. Jon finally rode a dragon and learned he’s Rhaegar’s son and heir. I’m really interested in how Dany will take that news. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/22 "2019-04-15T16:51:46Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > They may have been referred to that, but there wasn’t any evidence they were. In “Fire & Blood” it speaks to how Jacaerys Velaryon asked for dragonseeds to ride dragons for Rhaenyra, but had it open to anyone would could claim a dragon. At the very least no one had any idea if Hugh Hammer, Ulf the White, and Nettles had any Valyrian blood. Yeah, but there’s also no evidence that they _weren’t_, which is what **DrCube** was claiming. Thinking about it more, it does seem a bit strange to be that GRRM would intend that there be a blood link for dragon riding, and do the whole ‘secret royalty’ plotline with Jon, given that he enjoys deconstructing the usual fantasy tropes. Maybe his intention is that there is no blood link for dragon riding and that what we’ve seen (such as Fire and Blood, written from a maester’s POV) is just the people of Westeros trying to convince themselves there’s a link when there’s not. And that Jon’s plot is not going to end happily… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/23 "2019-04-15T18:05:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > …some of the Targaryen lords promised noble titles and land to any person who could tame a dragon and ride it into battle on their side. Most would-be dragonriders were roasted, but a handful of random non-Targaryen smallfolk successfully tamed dragons, and a few of those tried (and failed) to use their dragons to carve out kingdoms of their own. Were any of those smallfolk actually Targaryen bastards (either male or female), perhaps? > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > …I also thought it was interesting that Jon was said to be named Aegon (I don’t recall if that was mentioned last season… it may have been)… Yes, we saw Lyanna on her bed of blood tell her brother Ned that the child’s name was Aegon Targaryen, and swearing him to keep it secret. Remind me, who is older, Jon/Aegon or Dany? And by how much? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/24 "2019-04-15T18:13:18Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Were any of those smallfolk actually Targaryen bastards (either male or female), perhaps? Some of them may have been, but IIRC for at least some of them it was very unlikely (i.e. they hailed from a region of Westeros with no Targaryens nearby). ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/25 "2019-04-15T18:13:36Z")
I believe Jon would be older by a few months. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/26 "2019-04-15T18:20:36Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Remind me, who is older, Jon/Aegon or Dany? And by how much? Based on the books, Dany is older, by about 9 months or maybe a year. GRRM even clarified that in an interview at one point. She was born during Robert’s Rebellion, while Jon was born just after the rebellion. I’m not sure it has been addressed in the show. It shouldn’t matter for the succession though. Aerys died before Rhaegar, so Rhaegar was technically king. Then his kids were murdered by the Mountain, possibly making his brother Viserys the heir for a short time, but then Rhaegar had another son by Lyanna. At no point was Dany ever actually an heir to the throne, despite what she thinks. It will be a tough pill for her to swallow. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/27 "2019-04-15T18:33:25Z")
Wiki says Dany was _conceived_ around a month before Aerys’s death, and was born in 284 AC. Lyanna died in 283 AC at the Tower of Joy, so Jon’s older by a few months to a year. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Some of them may have been, but IIRC for at least some of them it was very unlikely (i.e. they hailed from a region of Westeros with no Targaryens nearby). Of the four successful ‘dragonseeds’, Addam is a Velaryon bastard, Hugh and Ulf are both bastards on Dragonstone (aka Targ Central) and Nettles is from Driftmark, which is the seat of House Velaryon and right next to Dragonstone. So, again, doesn’t mean they really do have Valyrian blood (or that it matters), but also not proof that they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/28 "2019-04-15T18:38:33Z")
It shouldn’t matter, IIRC, whether Aerys II died before or after Rhaegar, as the son of the first son is first in line over a second brother. At least it does in Earth primogeniture. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/29 "2019-04-15T18:45:22Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > Of the four successful ‘dragonseeds’, Addam is a Velaryon bastard, Hugh and Ulf are both bastards on Dragonstone (aka Targ Central) and Nettles is from Driftmark, which is the seat of House Velaryon and right next to Dragonstone. So, again, doesn’t mean they really do have Valyrian blood (or that it matters), but also not proof that they don’t. Thanks! For some reason I thought there were more than just four. Maybe my memory is off. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/30 "2019-04-15T19:27:41Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > Wiki says Dany was _conceived_ around a month before Aerys’s death, and was born in 284 AC. Lyanna died in 283 AC at the Tower of Joy, so Jon’s older by a few months to a year. Okay thanks, I misremembered. Dany was _conceived_ shortly before Jon was born, so he’s older. But they’re only about nine months apart, either way. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/31 "2019-04-15T20:13:29Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > I don’t know about “waste”. But he’s definitely a disturbing little creep now. You’d think he and his family would make more use of his god-like powers. But I guess he’s so off putting that even omniscience isn’t enough for people to overcome their reluctance to talk to him. I think it’s just that he simply doesn’t work as a character or a plot device. He was useful to provide exposition we otherwise could not have known, but the problem with a person with Godlike vision is it kind of takes the drama out of a lot of situations. So you have to make hinm refuse to just fucking say what needs to be said and speak in pointless riddles. > [@](#): > > I’m really interested in how Dany will take that news. If it’s anything other than wanting to kill Jon I’ll be disappointed. Being Queen of the Seven Kingdoms has been her life’s purpose. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/32 "2019-04-15T20:17:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If it’s anything other than wanting to kill Jon I’ll be disappointed. Being Queen of the Seven Kingdoms has been her life’s purpose. I think wanting to kill Jon, followed by being talked out of that by Tyrion who suggests a marriage instead would be acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/33 "2019-04-16T00:55:22Z")
If I’ve learned nothing from all the short stories and world-building books that have been released instead of TWOW, it’s that it doesn’t really matter who is supposed to be the true legal heir. Targs with dragons turn into assholes and will burn everything down to rule over the ashes. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/34 "2019-04-16T13:33:45Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I think wanting to kill Jon, followed by being talked out of that by Tyrion who suggests a marriage instead would be acceptable. Assuming they both survive S8 - which I highly doubt - they could co-rule, as William and Mary did in England in the late 1600s. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/35 "2019-04-16T20:22:43Z")
Here’s NPR’s funny take on who’s gonna die - no spoilers, but wildass guesses aplenty: ['Game Of Thrones' Predictions: Who Will Live? Who Will Die? : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2019/04/10/711063904/which-characters-will-lose-the-game-of-thrones-a-chronicle-of-many-deaths-foreto?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=popculturehappyhour) ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/36 "2019-04-16T21:37:15Z")
I don’t know if they’re sticking with this in the show, but my understanding from the books is that a dragon/wannabe dragon rider formed some sort of psychic bond for life which prevented that rider from riding any other dragon or that dragon from accepting another rider (although the “owner” could bring passengers along). Daenerys might not have wanted to bond her spare dragon with Jon Snow on a lark like that, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/37 "2019-04-16T22:04:35Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Dany is not (GRRM has explicitly said this) fireproof. She’s resistant to heat of the hot bath variety, but she cannot withstand fire. Her survival of Drogo’s funeral pyre was a one time magical ceremony that involved a blood sacrifice and the birth of dragons. > > In the books, who has gone near the dragons that wasn’t an enemy besides Quentyn? Sample size of 1 seems to be pretty small. I don’t think it’s in the main series, but I’m pretty sure that the World of Ice and Fire also explicitly says dragon riding isn’t uniquely Targaryen. At a minimum, other Valyrian houses had and rode dragons. what about the scene where she walks out of the big fire at the Dothroki place? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/38 "2019-04-16T23:56:19Z")
She also handled very hot dragon eggs (they’d been roasting on the fire for a long time) with her bare hands with no ill effect. When her handmaiden saw her she exclaimed “Khaleesi, no!” and grabbed them out of her hand, then immediately dropped them as her hands were badly burned. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/39 "2019-04-17T00:19:57Z")
She also had he dragons shoot fire around her in the house of the undying. And in the books she was on fire when she flew off on Drogon from Mereen. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/40 "2019-04-17T03:05:46Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > I don’t know if they’re sticking with this in the show, but my understanding from the books is that a dragon/wannabe dragon rider formed some sort of psychic bond for life which prevented that rider from riding any other dragon or that dragon from accepting another rider (although the “owner” could bring passengers along). Daenerys might not have wanted to bond her spare dragon with Jon Snow on a lark like that, I would think. Not necessarily. While dragon and dragon rider supposedly form some sort of bond, that doesn’t mean that the dragon would be bonded to that rider for life. For instance, Balerion, Aegon the Conqueror’s dragon was also ridden by Maegor I (and Aerea after him). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543.md?page=3)