# Game of Thrones season 8 open show/book discussion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 14, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543 "2019-04-14T18:44:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/81 "2019-04-29T05:51:17Z")
The show runners did say they have the major plot points and the overall outline, just needing to fill it in themselves. That’s why I won’t say “the show has gotten worse since it got past the books” or “GRRM would do something better” - the reality is that it’s easier to set up a complex story than to resolve it and GRRM is never going to do it, so it’s kinda shitty to crap on the people who are forced to do what he himself refuses to do. So I don’t know if Arya stabbing the NK was from GRRM or what. They did say that was the plan for 3 years. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/82 "2019-04-29T06:03:36Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > “The Great Other” is a god, the antithesis to the Lord of Light. The Night King is very powerful, but he’s by no means a god. I’m not at all convinced. There is no reason Melisandre is in Westeros otherwise. She chooses Stannis because she believes him to be the one who will destroy the Others. She constantly speaks about that being her goal. Not because she cares who sits on the Iron Throne. Storm of Swords, Ch 36: > [@](#): > > It means that the battle is begun. The sand is running through the glass more quickly now, and man’s hour on earth is almost done. We must act boldly, or all hope is lost. Westeros must unite beneath her one true king, the prince that was promised, Lord of Dragonstone and chosen of R’hillor. Storm of Swords, Ch 78: > [@](#): > > Melisandre: Swords alone cannot hold this darkness back. Only the light of the Lord can do that. Make no mistake, good sers and valiant brothers, the war we’ve come to fight is no petty squabble over lands and honors. Ours is a war for life itself, and should we fail the world dies with us. > > Aemon: It is the war for the dawnyou speak of, my lady. But where is the prince that was promised? > > Melisandre: He stands before you, though you do not have the eyes to see. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai come again, the warrior of fire. In him the prophecies are fulfilled. The red comet blazed across the sky to herald his coming, and he bears Lightbringer, the red sword of heroes. > **[The prince that was promised](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/The_prince_that_was_promised)** > > The prince that was promised is a prophesied leader or savior. The prince may be part of an ancient prophecy which foretells the coming of a hero to deliver the world from darkness. A "bleeding star" is supposed to herald the coming of the prince.\[1\]... Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/83 "2019-04-29T11:30:58Z")
Just throwing my support for **ISiddqui**. Melisandre’s entire purpose was to help the living defeat the dead. Azor Ahai is merely the vehicle to help in that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/84 "2019-04-29T12:14:08Z")
If GRRM had Cercei winning it all, I offically hope that his entrails burst out. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/85 "2019-04-29T13:03:19Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > If GRRM had Cercei winning it all, I offically hope that his entrails burst out. > :mad: I’d prefer that to Dany and/or Jon winning the throne. At least Cersei goes against standard tropes. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/86 "2019-04-29T13:59:18Z")
I think the Red Witch thought her work was done - and maybe lighting up all the swords and the barricade just exhausted her and used up all her remaining magic. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Robert Baratheon having a claim due to Targaryen ancestry is never mentioned in the show… Robert’s grandmother was a Targaryen, IIRC from the books. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/87 "2019-04-29T14:04:54Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I’d prefer that to Dany and/or Jon winning the throne. At least Cersei goes against standard tropes. Yes, I’d be fine with that as well, for those reasons. I do think they’ve teased the dragon killing crossbows enough that it’ll come into play and maybe kill of Dany and leave Jon to sit the Iron Throne. I guess that’d be ok. But at this point it just seems the mystery for the rest of the show is which character gets to kill Cersei. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/88 "2019-04-29T14:11:58Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > “The Great Other” is a god, the antithesis to the Lord of Light. The Night King is very powerful, but he’s by no means a god. I’m not at all convinced. Azor Ahai/PTWP/Jon Snow isn’t the Lord of Light, either. The battle of the long night is fought by proxies of the LoL and Great Other. I doubt the White Walkers are gone for good. They’ll be back in another 10,000 years or so. Just seems to be how things work on Planetos. I do wonder if the seasons will ever be normal. I kind of figured that was caused by WW-based magic. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/89 "2019-04-29T14:13:12Z")
GRRM has said that his ending would be bittersweet. Right now, the show looks like a a fairytale ending. I don’t think you can really call an ending where the Others are defeated and Jon and/or Dany rule the Seven Kingdoms “bittersweet.” If the show does the ending GRRM planned, I have to think at least one dies. Potentially one kills the other. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/90 "2019-04-29T14:45:25Z")
Hell of an episode with a great finish, but not enough key characters died. Several were literally about to be killed for a full ten or fifteen minutes. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/91 "2019-04-29T14:51:55Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > GRRM has said that his ending would be bittersweet. Right now, the show looks like a a fairytale ending. I don’t think you can really call an ending where the Others are defeated and Jon and/or Dany rule the Seven Kingdoms “bittersweet.” > > If the show does the ending GRRM planned, I have to think at least one dies. Potentially one kills the other. I predicted “Jon kills Dany” a while ago, but I thought it would have prophetic/magical significance for the defeat of the Night King. The books mention how the original Azor Ahai had to temper his sword by plunging it into the chest of his wife, and the sacrifice created Lightbringer. Now, I’m not sure if there is a point besides shock value. I can’t see Jon get worked up about who is on the Iron Throne, unless Dany threatens Sansa or the North somehow. And she kinda redeemed her “mad queen” tendencies by fighting the battle and not running away on her dragon when things got bleak. She even swung a sword herself and killed wights on foot. I’m impressed with Dany’s fighting spirit. I expected her to fight on dragonback or else be completely helpless. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/92 "2019-04-29T18:07:39Z")
Daenerys seems fairly sane now, which is a shame, because back in the first half of the show, she was kind of nuts. That would have made her a better character. It would be hard to square their characters with fighting over the Iron Throne. Jon doesn’t want it and Daenerys wants nothing more than it. Jon’s logical move is to sacrifice his claim to allow Daenerys to take the throne in return for some North independence. The question is whether or not he has to sacrifice his life to do that. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/93 "2019-04-29T18:39:51Z")
It’s pretty hard for the fight for the iron throne to matter now. I mean, you can’t have “the personification of death comes to exterminate all life” be the main threat of the series, handle that, and then expect who sits on the Iron Throne to be all that significant in comparison. You literally just saved all life from a magical army of death that would’ve snuffed out your entire race. Now we’re going to go back to bickering over who gets to sit on a throne? I mean, I still will be, but it just seems like kind of a Writing 101 sort of error there. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/94 "2019-04-29T19:14:02Z")
It does seem odd that the penultimate battle was the more important one, but I guess we’ll see if they have some crazy shit up their sleeves. Maybe Cersei has a White Walker penned up or an army of Mountain-like Frankenwarriors. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/95 "2019-04-29T19:38:29Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It does seem odd that the penultimate battle was the more important one, but I guess we’ll see if they have some crazy shit up their sleeves. Maybe Cersei has a White Walker penned up or an army of Mountain-like Frankenwarriors. We’ve all heard that when the show started, they producers got the broad strokes of the ending from GRRM. Did those broad strokes include Arya killing the Night King? Maybe, maybe not. I could see that being a “detail” more than a broad stroke. But the war with the Night King being resolved before the game of thrones is resolved seems like a broad stroke to me, something they got from George. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/96 "2019-04-29T19:47:30Z")
Well it’s quite possible that it was George’s answer to the Scouring of the Shire. An afterlude as opposed to getting the same amount of play as the big battle against the dark (in the show each will get it’s own episode it seems, while in the books, the Battle of KL may be far less in pages than the Battle of Winterfell). ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/97 "2019-04-29T19:59:08Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > We’ve all heard that when the show started, they producers got the broad strokes of the ending from GRRM. > > Did those broad strokes include Arya killing the Night King? Maybe, maybe not. I could see that being a “detail” more than a broad stroke. > > But the war with the Night King being resolved before the game of thrones is resolved seems like a broad stroke to me, something they got from George. The showrunners stated that they have known that Arya would kill the Night King for about 3 years. Since the show premiered 8 years ago, GRRM’s ‘broad strokes’ must have been delivered before that…so “Arya kills the Night King” appears to be a show-only invention. Also, there is no such character as the “Night King” in the books…at least, not that we’ve seen so far. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/98 "2019-04-29T20:09:55Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > There is no reason Melisandre is in Westeros otherwise. She chooses Stannis because she believes him to be the one who will destroy the Others. She constantly speaks about that being her goal. Not because she cares who sits on the Iron Throne. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Just throwing my support for **ISiddqui**. Melisandre’s entire purpose was to help the living defeat the dead. Azor Ahai is merely the vehicle to help in that purpose. Ok, I’ll concede. But that doesn’t make a lot of sense either. If the Night King is an existential threat to the entire world, shouldn’t all Red Priests/Red Priestesses be in Westeros for the fight against him, not just Melisandre and Thoros? (It’s not clear Thoros has any idea what the game is anyway.) If Melisandre knows and cares, why don’t the rest? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/99 "2019-04-29T20:20:44Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Is the undead dragon shooting fire? It seems to me to be some sort of magical undead opposite to fire. I could easily fanwank that Daeneris’s immunity to fire might actually make her extra susceptible to whatever it is the undead dragon is spewing, Blue is normally evocative of cold, and of course the undead come along with winter. I assumed it was breathing cold. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543/100 "2019-04-29T20:25:48Z")
The Night King is referenced in stories, but IIRC it was a Stark that ruled north of the Wall (the wiki didn’t help). Took an Other as his bride? Something like that. If GRRM ever finishes the books it will be a weird experience to read them given a lot of the show is how I view the world now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-8-open-show-book-discussion-thread/832543.md?page=6)