# Game of Thrones, The Pointy End, 6/5/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 5, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450 "2011-06-05T22:35:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/121 "2011-06-07T21:47:46Z")
I was a bit disappointed by the fight scene. Come on, a fully armored knight down for the count from a bat to the chestplate or helmet by a wooden staff? It reminded me of all those fake fights from old Westerns or Star Trek in which a slap on the back rendered someone unconscious. To put someone out of a physical fight, barring a potentially life threatening wound or blow, you either have to beat someone senseless, which takes serious effort and can’t be done with a single blow to a helmeted head, or you have to cut something open, causing a distracting level of pain, or significant damage to the knees or ankles, which would make it difficult to stand or walk but wouldn’t totally flatten them. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/122 "2011-06-07T21:54:48Z")
I can buy a good hit to the helmet being disabling - that concussive force has to go somewhere and it just crushes the brain. These are thin metal helms designed to prevent slicing, not padded football helmets - a whack with a big stick from a trained fighter would take you down. Agree that body shots should be pretty ineffective though. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/123 "2011-06-07T21:59:05Z")
Rule of Cool, folks. Rule of Cool. 🆒 Cool guys don’t look at explosions as they’re walking away and ambiguously foreign swordsman can take out a whole battalion of armed soldiers with little more than a twig. And thats the way I likes it! ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/124 "2011-06-07T22:25:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I was a bit disappointed by the fight scene. Come on, a fully armored knight down for the count from a bat to the chestplate or helmet by a wooden staff? It reminded me of all those fake fights from old Westerns or Star Trek in which a slap on the back rendered someone unconscious. To put someone out of a physical fight, barring a potentially life threatening wound or blow, you either have to beat someone senseless, which takes serious effort and can’t be done with a single blow to a helmeted head, or you have to cut something open, causing a distracting level of pain, or significant damage to the knees or ankles, which would make it difficult to stand or walk but wouldn’t totally flatten them. I agree with this. That’s the part I was most excited for too. On a second viewing it wasn’t as lame, but nowhere near what I wanted. A helmet blocking a sword doesn’t magically remove that energy, it gets transfered to the head like a blunt training weapon would. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/125 "2011-06-07T23:12:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I was a bit disappointed by the fight scene. Come on, a fully armored knight down for the count from a bat to the chestplate or helmet by a wooden staff? It reminded me of all those fake fights from old Westerns or Star Trek in which a slap on the back rendered someone unconscious. To put someone out of a physical fight, barring a potentially life threatening wound or blow, you either have to beat someone senseless, which takes serious effort and can’t be done with a single blow to a helmeted head, or you have to cut something open, causing a distracting level of pain, or significant damage to the knees or ankles, which would make it difficult to stand or walk but wouldn’t totally flatten them. I watched it a couple times this afternoon and they did a pretty good job of ensuring that all the debilitating blows were nearly full swings to the side and front of the head. Hit a guy with a medieval helmet in the head with the equivalent of a baseball bat or hockey stick and he’s going down. Maybe not for the count, but long enough for Syrio to deal with the next attacker. The problem is that the actor portraying Syrio isn’t very athletic and his swings looked very unfortunately like slaps. If we bite on the suspension of disbelief that Syrio is a legendary swordsman you can convince yourself that those blows had quite a lot of force behind them and the issue wasn’t with the premise but with the choreography and portrayal. ETA: Also note that when Anya is fleeing and the Syrio is facing off with the kingsguard you see all the Lannister men starting to get to their feet once the fog cleared. They aren’t rendered unconscious, just taken off their feet. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/126 "2011-06-07T23:22:54Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > He didn’t strangle him, but he did use his cape to his advantage. He swung him around by the cape to keep him off balance and keep separation with the other soldiers and he finally wraps the cape around his arms and shoulders to bind him before whacking him in the face. I didn’t mean strangle, as in strangle to death, but there was a moment where he first caught the cape that I thought I heard a distinct gurgling, spluttering sound, as though he were being momentarily strangled. But yeah, the whole extended cape fighting sequence is what I was referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/127 "2011-06-08T00:07:48Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > I didn’t mean strangle, as in strangle to death, but there was a moment where he first caught the cape that I thought I heard a distinct gurgling, spluttering sound, as though he were being momentarily strangled. But yeah, the whole extended cape fighting sequence is what I was referring to. Just watched the sequence. No choking or gurgling sounds. One attacker thrusts past and Syrio grabs him by the cape and yanks. The attacker reaches up with one hand to his collar to resist the tug on his cape, but the capes aren’t tied around the neck they are attached to the shoulders of the breast plate. That said the attacker does act like he’s being choked momentarily even if it doesn’t really make any sense in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/128 "2011-06-08T00:33:11Z")
It’s **Arya** , dammit. Not Anya. Not Ayla. Not Arwen. \<\\> ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/129 "2011-06-08T00:35:39Z")
Back to why Ned and the kids were still around. After Jaime stabbed him and he lay on his sick bed, Robert told Ned he couldn’t quit, gave him back his ‘hand’ and told Ned that if he ever gave it back, he’d pin it on Jaime. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/130 "2011-06-08T02:27:07Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > After rewatching the scene there’s quite a bit of sword clanking and screams of many men, at least 3 or 4. It’s clear that it’s not just Syrio getting cut down, but another extended fight with at least a few of the Lannister men getting sliced up. Syrio must have gotten his hands on a metal weapon and continued the fight for a while if the sound design is remotely accurate. There was fighting going on all around the castle. I didn’t take it that those sounds were coming from that room. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/131 "2011-06-08T02:46:22Z")
I find it hard to believe that those helmets aren’t lined with something like leather or wool, or both. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/132 "2011-06-08T02:54:24Z")
Isn’t there mention at some point that the training swords are filled with lead cores, to strengthen the swordsman’s arm? Or am I imagining something here? I thought that’s what was going on, and that makes his training sword a fairly nasty weapon if he can whip it around quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/133 "2011-06-08T02:55:22Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I find it hard to believe that those helmets aren’t lined with something like leather or wool, or both. Not to argue semantics, but even just watching recreations in the park, um…yeah. had a few friends get their bells rung without anyone even trying, with padded everything. I…I, who will try anything once…declined to get into the proffered suit for a try after watching that. 😛 Regardless, what happened, happened. Likely anything that you see could have happened, and anything that you thought should have happened could have happened as well. But it didn’t. It happened as written. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/134 "2011-06-08T02:56:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Isn’t there mention at some point that the training swords are filled with lead cores, to strengthen the swordsman’s arm? Or am I imagining something here? I thought that’s what was going on, and that makes his training sword a fairly nasty weapon if he can whip it around quickly. Rewatched it, and his wooden sword is clearly hollow, as evidenced when it broke in half; you could see it quite clearly. Not a HUGE hollow, but a hollow; didn’t look anything like a metal core. Still pretty jaggedy, though, and I still hope he took out someone with it. 😛 I have no hopes that he survived. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/135 "2011-06-08T03:01:09Z")
I have no idea what that means, Taomist. I’m commenting on the (lack of) verisimilitude of the visual portrayal of a sequence of events. You’re coming back with the incantation “it is thus written.” It’s not convincing me that I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/136 "2011-06-08T03:30:58Z")
> [@Taomist](#): > > Rewatched it, and his wooden sword is clearly hollow, as evidenced when it broke in half; you could see it quite clearly. Not a HUGE hollow, but a hollow; didn’t look anything like a metal core. Still pretty jaggedy, though, and I still hope he took out someone with it. 😛 I have no hopes that he survived. Absolutely not hollow. You need a better TV or a high def rip. It’s a wooden dowel in the middle surrounded by a different type of wood on the outside. Don’t make me screen cap it because I’m lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/137 "2011-06-08T03:35:08Z")
Also, do you think Drogo’s challenger’s scimitar had been previously tampered with so as to make it vulnerable to the flexing of muscle? Because this would explain why Drogo still has both his nipples. It’s always a surprise what Dopers will dig their teeth into. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/138 "2011-06-08T03:42:37Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I think it was more along the lines of “For the slow watchers out there, Hodor is retarded. Like really, really retarded.” > > -Joe Series Hodor is also a lot older and far more pillowly than the book Hodor. IIRC book Hodor was in his early 20’s and build like Little Abner on steriods. [The Hodor actor is a DJ in his mid 30’s](http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Kristian_Nairn), and series Hodor looks like he could be in his 40s. I’m surprised they didn’t get a football player or someone more muscular to play him. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/139 "2011-06-08T04:25:29Z")
Barristan becomes a bigger badass every time I watch this episode. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/140 "2011-06-08T04:41:06Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Series Hodor is also a lot older and far more pillowly than the book Hodor. IIRC book Hodor was in his early 20’s and build like Little Abner on steriods. [The Hodor actor is a DJ in his mid 30’s](http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Kristian_Nairn), and series Hodor looks like he could be in his 40s. I’m surprised they didn’t get a football player or someone more muscular to play him. [One of the worst web page designs I have ever seen.](http://www.myspace.com/kristiannairn) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450.md?page=8)