# Game of Thrones, The Pointy End, 6/5/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 5, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450 "2011-06-05T22:35:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/161 "2011-06-09T08:38:35Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Riding off south. > > Stannis is north. Are you sure about that? When Renly asled for Ned’s support, it was when he believed he still had the city guard in his pocket. As the Lannisters now have the throne, isn’t Stannis still a better alternative? Also, I thought Robb was going to use the captured scout to trick Tyrion to take the high ground and dig in, all while wheeling around and smashing Jamie’s army instead, and the attacking Tywin with the combined forces of the Starks and Tullys. That’s what I would have done, anyway. Instead I got the impression towards the end of the episode that Robb’s army was heading straight towards Tywin’s camp. Perhaps it’s just a ruse? ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/162 "2011-06-09T08:57:21Z")
Renly has stated pretty strongly that he thinks Stannis would make a crap king. I don’t think he’s going to change his mind just because the Lannisters still hold the throne. It doesn’t matter anyway to him - he was ready to fight for the throne regardless of who held it. As he pointed out to Ned, it’s swords that give the right to rule, not blood. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/163 "2011-06-09T12:39:55Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Renly has stated pretty strongly that he thinks Stannis would make a crap king. I don’t think he’s going to change his mind just because the Lannisters still hold the throne. It doesn’t matter anyway to him - he was ready to fight for the throne regardless of who held it. As he pointed out to Ned, it’s swords that give the right to rule, not blood. Well, I had the impression that Stannis would be crap because he’s a soldier instead of a politician, not because he’s part of a family of sociopaths who would happily slaughter the other houses if they only had the manpower. On the other hand, to the average citizen, the Lannisters would probably be better rulers than Stannis, so I guess it depends on your point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/164 "2011-06-09T15:55:49Z")
> [@kombatminipig](#): > > Are you sure about that? When Renly asled for Ned’s support, it was when he believed he still had the city guard in his pocket. As the Lannisters now have the throne, isn’t Stannis still a better alternative? Sure about what? In the show Littlefinger (IIRC) tells Ned that Renly was spotting riding south with Loras and a group of knights, presumably to Storm’s End the seat of House Baratheon. According to the viewers guide Stannis is holed up in Drangonstone on an island to the north. They obviously aren’t teaming up as brothers. New sent word off to Stannis before the shit hit the fan so I suspect that Ned will be able to count on Stannis’s aid at some point when he learns about the treachery. Who knows what Renly will do, he wants the throne but he probably won’t have the men to do it since Stannis will be both the rightful heir and the head of House Baratheon. > [@](#): > > Also, I thought Robb was going to use the captured scout to trick Tyrion to take the high ground and dig in, all while wheeling around and smashing Jamie’s army instead, and the attacking Tywin with the combined forces of the Starks and Tullys. That’s what I would have done, anyway. > Instead I got the impression towards the end of the episode that Robb’s army was heading straight towards Tywin’s camp. Perhaps it’s just a ruse? I think it’s fairly obvious that Robb was deceiving the spy and will use that misdirection to get the upperhand against the Lannisters. Also, I suspect that the hillmen will eventually attack the Eyrie and force that crazy bitch to mobilize her troops against her best wishes which will help the Starks. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/165 "2011-06-09T16:33:57Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Who knows what Renly will do, he wants the throne but he probably won’t have the men to do it since Stannis will be both the rightful heir and the head of House Baratheon. Remember, Loras’s family, the Tyrells, are one of the Great Houses (as per the Viewers Guide) and are almost as rich as the Lannisters (as Loras himself implied). ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/166 "2011-06-09T16:38:17Z")
If the hill tribes attack the Eyrie that would just make her dig in even harder i think. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/167 "2011-06-09T16:43:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Remember, Loras’s family, the Tyrells, are one of the Great Houses (as per the Viewers Guide) and are almost as rich as the Lannisters (as Loras himself implied). Renly is essentially the ruler of the Baratheon kingdom, the Stormlands, since Stannis is ruling Dragonstone (originally the home base of the Targaryens) for Robert. So Renly has a whole kingdom’s (one of the 7) resources at his disposal. He also has the Tyrells, as noted, and they rule the Reach, the most populous region in Westeros. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/168 "2011-06-09T17:03:13Z")
OK, that’s interesting. So we can’t rule Renly out, although he doesn’t seem like the type to lead a great battle, or rule over everything. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/169 "2011-06-09T17:37:37Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Renly is essentially the ruler of the Baratheon kingdom, the Stormlands, since Stannis is ruling Dragonstone (originally the home base of the Targaryens) for Robert. So Renly has a whole kingdom’s (one of the 7) resources at his disposal. He also has the Tyrells, as noted, and they rule the Reach, the most populous region in Westeros. Perhaps, but if the Baratheons are wired anything like the Starks there’s no way that Storm’s End would allow Renly to usurp Stannis’s claim to the House of Baratheon. Certainly they’d follow Renly’s orders so long as he’s not countermanded by Stannis but if Stannis steps up to command the Baratheon’s bannermen I suspect that the House would follow the rightful heir. They take that line of succession stuff seriously. If Stannis came to an untimely end and the Tyrells backed him however, things would get far more interesting. Maybe Stannis dies trying to free Ned. Hmm… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/170 "2011-06-09T17:44:50Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > OK, that’s interesting. So we can’t rule Renly out, although he doesn’t seem like the type to lead a great battle, or rule over everything. And Joffrey is? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/171 "2011-06-09T17:53:32Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > And Joffrey is? Well it’s clear, that Joffrey is just his mother’s puppet. And she has shown herself to be fairly formidable. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/172 "2011-06-09T17:53:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > And Joffrey is? Then there’s the type suited to lead a great battle–who ends up a shit king. Or ends up a pretty good king–with idiot sons… ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450/173 "2011-06-09T18:03:22Z")
Joffrey did have the one good idea of a standing royal army. But aside from that, he has not impressed me. (As compared to the young Gaius Octavian as portrayed in the HBO series Rome. In the first or second episode of the series, when the character was about twelve years old, we still got the idea that he was very smart.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-pointy-end-6-5-11/584450.md?page=8)