# Game of Thrones, The Wolf and the Lion, 5/15/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 15, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039 "2011-05-15T23:59:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/1 "2011-05-15T23:59:16Z")
No spoilers. Pretend the books don’t exist. If you want to ask a question or discuss the books, head to the [spoiler thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=605757). A recap of last week: Sam, a new recruit, arrives at the wall. He’s fat and a coward, but Jon convinces the rest of the recruits to protect him. Tyrion stops at Winterfell on his way south and gives Bran a design for a saddle that will allow him to ride a horse. In King’s Landing Ned investigates Jon Arryn’s death. When he died he was reading a book on the lineage of the great houses and he visited a smithy on several occasions to speak to one of King Robert’s bastards. The Hand’s tourney begins, and we see one joust. Ser Gregor “the mountain that rides” Clegane, the Hound’s older brother, faces off against Ser Hugh of the Vale, Jon Arryn’s former squire. At the second go, Gregor’s lance impales Ser Hugh’s throat. Across the narrow sea the Dothraki reach Vaes Dothrak. Viserys is insulted when Dany summons him; she woke the dragon and he strikes her. Dany final fights back and lets Viserys know that “the next time you raise a hand to me will be the last time you have hands.” Finally, at the inn at the crossroads, Catelyn is having dinner on her way north when Tyrion enters. She calls upon knights sworn to her father to have Tyrion arrested. Does anybody read the recap? They have a fairly extensive recap at the beginning of the episode and maybe it draws attention from the spoiler warning. If nobody objects, this will be my last recap. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/2 "2011-05-16T02:13:25Z")
It’s really starting to kick into gear. I loved seeing the Eyrie on the opening credits–I’ve been waiting for that one. First view of the Eyrie on screen looked fake, but it’s hard to see how they would have pulled that off and not looked fake, without blowing the entire season budget on the CGI. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/3 "2011-05-16T02:32:03Z")
Easily my favorite episode. Tons of action. I thought the Mountain vs. Hound fight was a bit clunky, but that’s it. I missed not having anything on the Wall, since that’s been my favorite setting so far, but just great episode. Can’t wait for next week. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/4 "2011-05-16T02:41:17Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Does anybody read the recap? They have a fairly extensive recap at the beginning of the episode and maybe it draws attention from the spoiler warning. If nobody objects, this will be my last recap. I read it. But this is the first time I’ve read a AGoT thread. It’s helpful. I haven’t read the books, and I’m having trouble keeping everyone straight. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/5 "2011-05-16T02:49:23Z")
Awesome episode Great interaction with Robert and his wife the queen, Jamie pissed about how that guard stole his fight. Tyrion nailing that barbarian with the shield and that weird lady of the eyrie breast feeding an eight or ten year old. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/6 "2011-05-16T02:54:07Z")
Something that I don’t really get: Why is everyone concerned with Dany’s baby? Son or not, it’s Viserys who’s the contestant for the crown, and it’s because of that the Dothraki took Dany to wife. I know the Targaryens often wedded brother to sister, but this isn’t the case, so…what hold does any kid of Dany’s have for the throne unless Viserys is dead? Why aren’t they worried more about VISERYS? (P.S. I _have_ read the books; didn’t get it there, either) ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/7 "2011-05-16T03:03:25Z")
I’ll answer that question in the spoiled thread tomorrow when I’m at a computer, if someone hasn’t already beaten me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/8 "2011-05-16T03:04:37Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I’ll answer that question in the spoiled thread tomorrow when I’m at a computer, if someone hasn’t already beaten me to it. Thanks 🙂 Again, I _have_ read the books, so…Ok, spoiler thread. Good episode. I’m really liking the action. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/9 "2011-05-16T03:19:49Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Does anybody read the recap? They have a fairly extensive recap at the beginning of the episode and maybe it draws attention from the spoiler warning. If nobody objects, this will be my last recap. I do, and I appreciate having it. 🙂 This episode moved really fast and should convince fence-sitters to keep watching, I think. Who was Varys walking with, down there with the dragon skulls? Was he identified and I missed it? Loved Littlefinger and Varys and their pissing contest – “Neener neener – I know something you don’t know!” Or “I know you know that I know but I know more than you!” 😃 Loved the look on Cat’s face when she saw her sister and realized what a crazy bitch she turned into, and that she was protective of Tyrion. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/10 "2011-05-16T03:26:09Z")
Yeah, the Varys and Littlefinger chat was priceless; I hope there is more of that. I don’t think the person down in the skulls has been identified; Arya told her dad, and then too much stuff happened afterwards for anything to be found out. If not, then I missed it too. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/11 "2011-05-16T03:35:12Z")
I think this was the episode where it finally is all starting to come together and _happen_ instead of being explained (past exposition)… woohoo! loving it! ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/12 "2011-05-16T03:36:42Z")
> [@Taomist](#): > > Something that I don’t really get: Why is everyone concerned with Dany’s baby? Son or not, it’s Viserys who’s the contestant for the crown, and it’s because of that the Dothraki took Dany to wife. I know the Targaryens often wedded brother to sister, but this isn’t the case, so…what hold does any kid of Dany’s have for the throne unless Viserys is dead? Why aren’t they worried more about VISERYS? (P.S. I _have_ read the books; didn’t get it there, either) I think Robert and co. just realize that its unlikely anyone with an army is going to risk it to put Viserys on the throne. And indeed, Khal doesn’t seem in any huge rush to help Viserys, brother in law or not. If Dany gets married off to someone powerful and produces an heir, then its a lot more likely someone will stick their neck out to put themselves and their son on the throne (or the son will grow up, inherit their fathers army, and do it themselves), then that they’d do it for a rather winy in law. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/13 "2011-05-16T03:49:23Z")
Great episode. The sword fighting was a little clunky though. I don’t remember if the guy with Varys was shown or not so i am not sure whether saying who it was would be a spoiler or a clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/14 "2011-05-16T04:01:23Z")
I thought the sword fighting was about the best they could do with really big two-handed swords. Those things are pretty heavy. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/15 "2011-05-16T04:12:33Z")
Yeah I am under that impression as well. Two handed sword combat is not nimble, dance around swordplay like Arya is learning. It’s take a whack, take a whack, take a whack. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/16 "2011-05-16T04:23:16Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > I think this was the episode where it finally is all starting to come together and _happen_ instead of being explained (past exposition)… woohoo! loving it! And the writers are doing a great job at getting me to switch loyalties among characters, first sympathizing with them and later despising them, or vice versa. I haven’t read the books either, but I’m participating in the other thread as well, because I hate being frustrated by unanswered questions. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/17 "2011-05-16T04:38:33Z")
I appreciate the recaps too. Keep doing them. I missed the wall storyline too and the Danerys/Viserys storyline, but I liked everything that was there. I find it touching, in a weird way, that Jaime cares about Tyrion, even if he is the kind of guy who will casually toss a ten year old out a window. With the exception of a couple of true sociopaths, you can’t really peg any of these characters as purely good or evil. I have to say that HBO has, in my opiniuon, hit itout of the ballpark with this adaptation. It’s giving the fans everything they want while still being accessible to newbies. If anything, it’s _improved_ on the books, even though (as is usually the case with cinematic adaptations of novels) it feels a little rushed, I think this is a case where that’s not a bad thing. The books are a little bit larded, and it’s no great loss to shave some of that off. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/18 "2011-05-16T04:42:36Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > And the writers are doing a great job at getting me to switch loyalties among characters, first sympathizing with them and later despising them, or vice versa. That’s one of the great hooks and innovations of the books is that the characters aren’t easily classifiable as good or bad. The ostensible villains can do surprisingly decent things, and the ostensible heroes can do despicable things. The other hook is that no character can be presumed to be safe. Anybody can die at any time. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/19 "2011-05-16T05:17:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That’s one of the great hooks and innovations of the books is that the characters aren’t easily classifiable as good or bad. The ostensible villains can do surprisingly decent things, and the ostensible heroes can do despicable things. > > The other hook is that no character can be presumed to be safe. Anybody can die at any time. Yes, I really liked that during the road fight Tyrion clearly had different plans and was really rather pissed off at having to join in the fight. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039/20 "2011-05-16T05:23:24Z")
I mentioned in the other thread that I’m also watching _Camelot_ and _The Borgias_ as they premiere on other networks. IMO _Game of Thrones_ makes the other two look like drama club productions. I even kind of like the other two, but qualitatively they aren’t in the same league. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-the-wolf-and-the-lion-5-15-11/582039.md?page=2)