# Game of Thrones TV show speculation thread. Spoilers, of course. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 25, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858 "2017-06-25T19:58:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/61 "2017-07-06T11:38:19Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > And THE STARKS got the blame for that? I mostly agree. But the northern Houses had reason to blame the Starks for letting them down by giving priority to personal honour and sensitivities, and not the interests of the North. Unbeknown to the Houses, Eddard had been the first to not just fail them but all of Westeros by warning Cersei and giving her time to act. His action was not malicious but incredibly naive. Robb decided to behead the Karstark lord when he refused to follow his king’s order, yet when his mother did the same and with far worse consequences, she was temporarily put under house arrest. And then Robb ignored his vow to the Freys and married another girl for love and his personal honour. The Red Wedding could only happen because Robb had shown poor decision making when he was not engaged with purely military matters. He failed in the responsibilities of a political leader in wartime - which is, undoubtedly, part of a king’s job. And, of course, he failed to see the trap in time. Yes, he was betrayed - but the safety of his men was still his responsibility. So, I do understand why the Houses resent Robb specifically. And if they knew what Eddard did, they’d likely call him a fool as well. And lets not forget that the Starks didn’t protect their own domain and their people from the Ironborn; they weren’t even capable of holding their own stronghold against their attack. Much death and grief in the North resulted from decisions made by Starks. They were the Wardens of the North - and they failed miserably. > [@Biggirl](#): > > I thought the prophecy was that a younger, pretty woman would take her crown and her little brother would kill her. Everyone expects that it will be Tyrion (well, not everyone. A lot of people think like I do) but I think it’ll be Jaime. He likes killing the reigning monarchs. It’s a thing he does. Interestingly, the [Valonquar-part of the prophecy is missing](https://youtu.be/FwHGNoMjHn8?t=181) in the show. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/62 "2017-07-06T12:49:56Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > And lets not forget that the Starks didn’t protect their own domain and their people from the Ironborn; they weren’t even capable of holding their own stronghold against their attack. > > Much death and grief in the North resulted from decisions made by Starks. They were the Wardens of the North - and they failed miserably. I’d give them the betrayal of Theon, and Winterfell being captured. Naively sending Theon to treat was idiocy. However, the blind spot being Ramsey Bolton, who betrayed them again when the north came back to retake Winterfell. And nobody found this out? The Boltons had clearly betrayed the Starks long before the Red Wedding, and yet it took the Red wedding to find this out. As for the naivity of Ned, I think that’s total nonsense. Do you think any normal people would have thought “well, even **I** , bumpkin son of Olaf the stupid, knew that Kings Landing was a pit vipers - Ned’s an idiot”? Nah, the North does not remember in the TV series. Even the ones who are with the Boltons in the book, are there because their family are still being held hostage. It was an excuse to have a ballsy warrior child daughter, weirdly a relative of Jorah, introduced. And then to hurry to the Episode 9 budget bonanza… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/63 "2017-07-06T13:23:11Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I don’t think the Starks were out, it just seemed that way because: > > 1. Many House houses didn’t have the courage to stand up… OK, but what about the House _house_ houses? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/64 "2017-07-06T14:47:20Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > OK, but what about the House _house_ houses? Ha! Of course that wasn’t a typo. Everyone knows the House House is run by a Maester who has terrible bedside manner and always figures out it isn’t Lupus. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/65 "2017-07-06T15:42:22Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Ha! Of course that wasn’t a typo. Everyone knows the House House is run by a Maester who has terrible bedside manner and always figures out it isn’t Lupus. 🙂 Of course. People flee him to run pell-mell into the chilly arms of the White Walkers. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/66 "2017-07-06T17:23:26Z")
If we turn our eyes to the real war, and the true strengths of each house: Dragonstone has - dragon glass. The only real weapons against theNight King and his warriors will require raw materials either from Dragonstone or Valeria. I suspect castle black may be built of dragon glass entirely. Winterfell - the central wood has the Weirwood tree which I suspect will become the operating center of the last greenseer. He’s the only one who can communicate to treat with the enemy, or to gain intel, or share counter-intel. In the books, there is no more automated warmth or greenhouse for winter veg, but in the show it’s still a powerfull fortress against everything Winter can bring. The Red Keep still contains tons of “pigshit.” Those fragile grenades can take out thousands of wights, and will be absolutely necessary. Highgarden can still feed the troops, though we really don’t know for how long. The Iron Islands have ships and sailors. Transport will be vital as the dragons can easily get far ahead of the army. Also, they’ll need to bring food and the land will be hopelessly buried in snow. Most of the current high houses have at least one Valerian steel sword, which will be highly prized for single combat. What else? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/67 "2017-07-06T17:45:04Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > Given Littlefinger’s involvement in the fate of the Stark family - and the advantage he took of women in particular, he will likely fall victim to the two remaining Stark-girls. I have seen speculation that Sansa is going to learn the truth before her wedding night with Littlefinger. Which truth? 😕😕 Littlefinger is one of my preferred characters. I hope he won’t die quickly without achieving something significant. He would seem wasted to me otherwise. I believed for a long time that he would at some point sit on the iron throne before getting offed in some way, but it seems very unlikely at this point. They’re trimming the support cast and concentrating on the remaining big players, and there aren’t many episodes left to settle the situation between Cersei, Jon, Danaerys and the winter king. They can’t introduce another rebound at this point. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/68 "2017-07-06T17:49:02Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > But she wouldn’t be. Jon is a bastard, regardless of whether he’s Ned or Lyanna’s bastard, and Rhaegar was never king, having died before he ascended. He could have been legitimized, for all we know. Anyway, might makes right, and having some claim is more than sufficient to rule. I can’t see Jon _wanting_ to become king, however. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/69 "2017-07-06T18:04:52Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > But even then, Dany would come first, unless the line of succession prefers the male descendants of the king, whether they are his children or grand-children or just nephews. Nope. Under most succession systems (except Saudi Arabia?), the throne would go to the eldest child, and then to his eldest child, etc… Dany being younger than Jon’s father, she would come after Jon, even without male preference. For instance, in the UK, if Charles dies before Elizabeth, the next in line for the throne will be Charles’ eldest son, not Charles’ younger siblings. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/70 "2017-07-06T18:07:45Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > He could have been legitimized, for all we know. > > Anyway, might makes right, and having some claim is more than sufficient to rule. > > I can’t see Jon _wanting_ to become king, however. Are we sure Lyanna and Rhaegar DIDN’T marry? Yeah, he had another wife, but Targaryans have often had multiple wives. It might not have been common lately, but I’ll bet if the heir to the throne showed up with a few of the kingdom’s best knights in tow and demanded that the local priest read a marriage service he’d have gotten a “certainly” in reply. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/71 "2017-07-06T19:11:39Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The Wall is going to crumble and the White Walker horde is going to reach King’s Landing. That’s pretty much a given. I don’t think they’ll reach King’s Landing. It would mean that most of the continent (including our beloved North) has been overrun. > [@Biggirl](#): > > Martin has been saying all along that if you think there’s going to be a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention. This makes me both nervous and excited. This. > [@Smid](#): > > Nymeria, Arya’s is still around riverlands but not sure how much referenced on the show, Never referenced since Arya told it to flee. It could reappear, but if it does something significant, it would come completely out of nowhere. There wasn’t much left of the direwolves in the show. They don’t have a warg-like connection with their masters, their behavior doesn’t reflect that of their masters, and in fact they rarely appear at all. They’re just a bit cosmetic on the show. > [@Smid](#): > > Euron will be the big bad of the series. Does he have the dragonhorn in the series? Not to our knowledge. Euron had only some minutes of screen time so far, and we hardly know anything about him. > [@Quimby](#): > > Things I expect to happen: > 4. One of the generally beloved characters will die before it’s over (Tyrion. Jamie, Brienne, or Arya). I predict only one of them will die but don’t know which. Probably not Arya. I expect more than one death. I wouldn’t be surprised if both Jon and Danaerys die. Brienne is only a secondary character. I think Arya will survive, but not in a good way. And her character isn’t very likable at this point. I totally expect Tyrion to survive. > [@Smid](#): > > don’t try and explain how they managed to get halfway across the world in 2 minutes of plot time I’m not sure why so many people had a problem with that. That’s basically how the show was organized since the beginning. Each season cover events that all happen within the same rather large time frame (maybe 6 months-one year) but unless they directly influence each other, they aren’t presented in a strict chronological order, and the length of time passing within a plot line can be very different from the length of time passing within another plot line (say, during one episode of from one episode to the next, Jon can have two days worth of wildling sex, Tywyn two weeks worth of marching armies around, and Arya two months worth of assassin training). I don’t see any difference with the last episode, except that they jumped to some months after all the other events for the last scene. It became an expensive but badly written fan fiction around beginning of Season 6. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Are we sure Lyanna and Rhaegar DIDN’T marry? No, we aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/72 "2017-07-06T19:15:36Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > [Jon Snow/Stark] could have been legitimized, for all we know… And Sansa, as the oldest living legitimate member of that House, might be the one to do it (although she might not want to, since it would severely limit her authority, such as it is). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/73 "2017-07-06T19:19:53Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > And Sansa, as the oldest living legitimate member of that House, might be the one to do it (although she might not want to, since it would severely limit her authority, such as it is). I meant that he might have been legitimized as a Targaryen, not as a Stark. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/74 "2017-07-06T20:06:42Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I meant that he might have been legitimized as a Targaryen, not as a Stark. Ah, yes. Also possible, although I kinda doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/75 "2017-07-06T20:18:01Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Which truth? 😕😕 That he used Lysa to create the situation that put the Starks and the Lannisters on a collision course, that he led Eddard to the truth about the incest and then [betrayed him](https://youtu.be/AVHzUUcSzQM?t=203). Don’t get me wrong: I have a soft spot for the great enabler, too. More than anyone else he has revealed the nature of Westeros’ society: its injustice, its sickness, its hollowness and brittleness. > [@clairobscur](#): > > Nope. Under most succession systems (except Saudi Arabia?), the throne would go to the eldest child, and then to his eldest child, etc… Dany being younger than Jon’s father, she would come after Jon, even without male preference. But we are not talking about real-world rules of succession. If Aerys indeed declared his younger son Viserys his heir (as stated in the already mentioned companion book “A World of Ice and Fire”), Rhaegar’s children were passed over in the line of succession. I don’t quite remember at the moment if Viserys ever explicitly called his sister his heir, but her claim could easily be stronger - according to Targaryen custom - than Jon’s. And, of course, might makes right. Aegon didn’t become ruler of Westeros by asking nicely, Robert followed his example, and Dany can field far more … arguments in her favour than anyone else right now … maybe except for the Night King. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/76 "2017-07-06T20:22:06Z")
You can certainly get more with a kind word and three giant fire-breathing dragons than with a kind word. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/77 "2017-07-07T11:55:10Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Littlefinger is one of my preferred characters. I hope he won’t die quickly without achieving something significant. He’ll probably die for some pointless reason because there hasn’t been a death for a while and the writers have got bored writing what’s next. Like Stannis. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/78 "2017-07-07T14:02:35Z")
I think harping on how GRRM says the series is going to end, bittersweet or not, is missing the point that he’s not the writer of the show. Sure, they have his outlines, but they seem perfectly happy to rewrite stuff. Granted, sometimes they rewrite it to be even more of a downer than the books (Sansa’s rape, for instance) but I can easily see them going for some sort of “happier” ending (for some characters.) 's not like GRRM has any say in it. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/79 "2017-07-07T18:42:34Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > He’ll probably die for some pointless reason because there hasn’t been a death for a while and the writers have got bored writing what’s next. Like Stannis. I’m afraid you might be right. I’ve been terribly disappointed by the end of Stannis story arc. It seemed like a massive waste of a very long plotline. He could as well not have existed, or maybe be as secondary as, say, lord Greyjoy. Another wasted character : the Blackfish. Made him look like an important character, characterized him well and then, went away in a puff of smoke. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Granted, sometimes they rewrite it to be even more of a downer than the books (Sansa’s rape, for instance) What is written is the books is vastly worst than Sansa’s rape in the show. If anything, they considerably toned this down. On top of it, Sansa chose to put herself in this predicament, while the book character didn’t have this luxury. I just rewatched some of the last episodes and noticed again that Arya’s mentor (don’t ask me to write his name) seems in fact pretty satisfied when she tells him that she’s Arya Stark of Winterfell and that she’s returning home. As if this was his goal all along. My guess is that Arya will end up finally becoming no one. Or at least that this death cult will achieve something through her. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858/80 "2017-07-07T19:34:14Z")
The Faceless Men contract to the Iron Bank. The Lannisters have abused the Iron Bank, and have no means to pay them back. Cersei is the head of house Lannister, and Arya’s mission in life is to kill her and many of the people who have enabled her or allied with her. Why wouldn’t the Faceless men be happy to train Arya to be an effective assassin and then let her go back to Westeros to carry out her mission? Here’s a thought - what if Arya kills Cersei, and maybe everyone else on her list, and then Jaqen appears and says, ‘Arya Stark will never be just a girl, and her purpose has been fulfilled’ - and then kills her for breaking the rules of the Faceless Men… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-tv-show-speculation-thread-spoilers-of-course/789858.md?page=5)