# Game of Thrones: What's the big deal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 11, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584 "2013-09-11T17:36:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/21 "2013-09-12T15:10:47Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > That’s because very little of substance is going on. > > Best i could tell it had the depth of an Obama foreign policy objective combinded with the sophistication of an Obama foreign policy objective combined with the … > > Short version: you spend about 18 weeks being told ‘war is coming’ and then there’s almost a sea battle. So, you are watching the _Reader’s Digest Condensed_ version, eh? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/22 "2013-09-12T15:13:56Z")
What’s worse? A GoT spoiler in a spoiler-free thread or political postering in a Cafe Society thread? I guess we shall see! ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/23 "2013-09-12T15:14:08Z")
Stranger - I wish I had. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/24 "2013-09-12T15:25:56Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Best i could tell it had the depth of an Obama foreign policy objective combinded with the sophistication of an Obama foreign policy objective combined with the … Off-topic political commentary is discouraged in Cafe Society, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/25 "2013-09-12T15:26:58Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Best i could tell it had the depth of an Obama foreign policy objective combinded with the sophistication of an Obama foreign policy objective combined with the … If you want to talk politics, go to GD. This is off-topic in a Cafe Society thread. **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/26 "2013-09-12T15:39:00Z")
The books add so much more to the story that I think you’re doing yourself a disservice if you like the TV show by not reading the books. I watched the first season of the show before I got into the books- there’s a LOT more under the surface and going on elsewhere that never makes it into the show. It’s almost as if the show is a gorgeously done Cliff’s Notes for the books. What makes them so compelling? On one hand, it’s a fantasy setting with a lot of the soap-operatic elements that people like- deceit, intrigue, etc… along with a lot of the action-movie stuff people like- sex, violence, grand scale stuff. On the other hand, there isn’t any _actual_ magic going on in the vast majority of the show, and the little bit that is present is inexplicable, malevolent and implacable. Plus, there’s the fun of trying to figure out how GRRM is going to tie everything together, or if he even plans on tying it all together. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/27 "2013-09-12T15:50:18Z")
> [@bump](#): > > On the other hand, there isn’t any _actual_ magic going on in the vast majority of the show, and the little bit that is present is inexplicable, malevolent and implacable. It’s really more Lovecraftian-type horror than fantasy magic save for the dragons and the Warlocks of Qarth. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/28 "2013-09-12T15:59:33Z")
Ooohhh… double mod slam! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/29 "2013-09-12T16:19:31Z")
Well to be fair, although BrokenBriton’s comment did bring a political element into the thread, it’s a VERY nice analogy for the filmed version of GoT, which has been short on huge epic battles for budget reasons, even though the storyline makes it very clear that such battles are happening. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/30 "2013-09-12T16:54:35Z")
thanks … yay House Putin! #notveryserious ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/31 "2013-09-12T17:01:24Z")
HBO’s site has lots of information for those wanting help with the complications–but wishing to avoid spoilers from the books. However, I will state that the books don’t go into great detail about every battle that’s happened in that war-torn world. If the show gave us those details, it would just be lots of CGI pretend-soldiers. My favorite thing: So many performances that are more excellent than they need to be… ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/32 "2013-09-12T17:27:51Z")
I find the show (and books) fascinating in how it explores many different approaches to gaining and holding power, with all of them vying simultaneously for superiority. What wins? Who drifts from one ethos to another? Honor (Starks) Blood ties (many) Armies (Stannis) Royal fiat (Joffrey, Cersei) Information control (Varys, Littlefinger) Treachery (Lannisters, Greyjoys) Chivalric code (Mormont, Barristan, Brienne) Money (Lannisters) Geography (The Arryns) Destiny (Dany) Tradition (Black cloaks) ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/33 "2013-09-12T20:39:07Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > I find the show (and books) fascinating in how it explores many different approaches to gaining and holding power, with all of them vying simultaneously for superiority. What wins? Who drifts from one ethos to another? > > Honor (Starks) > Blood ties (many) > Armies (Stannis) > Royal fiat (Joffrey, Cersei) > Information control (Varys, Littlefinger) > Treachery (Lannisters, Greyjoys) > Chivalric code (Mormont, Barristan, Brienne) > Money (Lannisters) > Geography (The Arryns) > Destiny (Dany) > Tradition (Black cloaks) Interesting. I never looked at it this way. Not only are these their approaches but also quite often their motivations. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/34 "2013-09-13T13:27:16Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > I find the show (and books) fascinating in how it explores many different approaches to gaining and holding power, with all of them vying simultaneously for superiority. What wins? Who drifts from one ethos to another? > > Honor (Starks) > Blood ties (many) > Armies (Stannis) > Royal fiat (Joffrey, Cersei) > Information control (Varys, Littlefinger) > Treachery (Lannisters, Greyjoys) > Chivalric code (Mormont, Barristan, Brienne) > Money (Lannisters) > Geography (The Arryns) > Destiny (Dany) > Tradition (Black cloaks) I think the Starks are kind of unique in that they have a sort of service-based concept of being Lords of the North, and it’s formed through millenia of ruling and building relationships with their vassals. The Lannisters aren’t particularly grasping; they’re rich because Casterly Rock and the nearby areas have productive gold mines. Tywin is more concerned with the family’s position and reputation than anything else, and uses their money to that end. Stannis is most concerned with justice and legality- above all else. Joffrey’s a dumb-ass kid who doesn’t really do much beyond give his grandfather headaches. Same thing for Cersei really. The Greyjoys aren’t necessarily treacherous by nature; they developed from a totally different tradition from the North or the rest of Westeros. They worship a different god, and hold other traditions more dear. Their culture is kind of viking-esque and values martial prowess and personal achievement over feudal allegiances or Westerosi notions of honor. The Arryns are a hard one to put a label on; we don’t really have any to examine. Lysa Arryn is really a Tully, and little Robert Arryn isn’t really playing the game just yet. Daenerys Targaryen is interesting; she seems to be motivated by a more benevolent reason than most of her contemporaries- to protect her subjects and better their lives. The Night’s Watch isn’t really playing the game either; they’re bound by thousands of years of tradition and practice, but their biggest problem is that they’re lacking in recruits, so they and their capabilities are much reduced when compared to those of old. They’re an interesting parallel to the Catholic priesthood in our universe- much the same thing is happening there. I wonder if GRRM is making a point, or if it’s just a convenient mechanism to tell a story with. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/35 "2013-09-13T14:08:25Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Podrick, apparently. “We’re talking about the same Podrick? The quiet boy in Lord Tyrion’s service, seems a bit simple?” > > Seriously, the dense plotting, the sometimes unexpected genre-defying plot twists, some great dialogue and charaters (you could make an entire spinoff show of Tyrion and his bodyguard carousing, whoring, and talking and it would be riveting), and spectacular scenery all make it superior to damn near anything else on televisionright now. Plus, spotting all of the actors who look like knockoffs of more famous actors (when I dubbed Theon Greyjoy “Evil Luke Skywalker” there was mich applause from my fellow viewers). The plot(s) themselves are basically cribbed from _The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire_ and various histories of the spread of Islam, the Mongol Empire, et cetera, with some fantasy elements, but while not terribly original they are well done. > > The occasional gratuitous nudity and violence is just HBO making sure that you getmyour premium cable fee worth. > > Stranger Actually, George R. R. Martin himself claims that a lot of the dynastic squabbling and backstabbing was cribbed from French History. In his foreword to the re-released _The Iron Duke_ by Maurice Druon he talks about his interest in Druon’s series, and calls it “The Original _Game of Thrones_” > **[The Iron King by Maurice Druon](https://farbeyondreality.com/2013/03/27/the-iron-king-by-maurice-druon/)** > > The Iron King by Maurice Druon is a historical novel that is about to be read by a large number of fantasy readers, mostly on the strength of a little quote by one George R.R. Martin on its cover. … ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/36 "2013-09-14T00:18:40Z")
I was under the impression that the largest influence is the War of the Roses: Lancaster=Lannister and York=Stark. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/37 "2013-09-14T00:36:10Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I was under the impression that the largest influence is the War of the Roses: Lancaster=Lannister and York=Stark. Yeah he says that explicitly somewhere or other. Plus, the parallels between Westeros and England/Scotland are all there. He also says, I think, “The Wall” was inspired by Hadrian’s Wall. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/38 "2013-09-14T05:45:22Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Honor (Starks) > Blood ties (many) > Armies (Stannis) > Royal fiat (Joffrey, Cersei) > Information control (Varys, Littlefinger) > Treachery (Lannisters, Greyjoys) > Chivalric code (Mormont, Barristan, Brienne) > Money (Lannisters) > Geography (The Arryns) > Destiny (Dany) > Tradition (Black cloaks) Don’t forget the Freys, who are big on blood ties, geography, and more. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/39 "2013-09-14T11:58:10Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > Don’t forget the Freys, who are big on blood ties, geography, and more. But not so big on hospitality. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584/40 "2013-09-14T22:33:42Z")
Does anyone else say George “RR” Martin like Mork from Ork? Just me? Okay. StG [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-whats-the-big-deal/668584.md?page=3)