# Game of thrones: Who the fuck am I supposed to be rooting for? \[book spoilers for TV\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 15, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785 "2014-03-15T19:40:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/61 "2014-03-16T18:28:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You would think then, you wouldn’t click on a thread where it sez **SPOILERS** in the title, then, eh? > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > As I said, the safer interpretation is that the spoiler warning is for people who _have not seen the TV show_; not for people who have not read the books. Folks, let’s try not to derail the thread on this topic. I have asked the mods to edit the title to include [TV Show Spoilers] instead of [Spoilers] to make it clear that it may contain spoilers from the TV Show and not from the books. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/62 "2014-03-16T18:32:32Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > As I said, the safer interpretation is that the spoiler warning is for people who _have not seen the TV show_; not for people who have not read the books. > > That is, while the OP seems to want to know whom to root for, he is warning people that the thread may contain spoilers _from the TV show_. Nice, and he could have said that. He didn’t, and in fact implied the opposite as his OP (as **Johnny LA** sez)_implies a request for knowledge that has not been revealed in the TV series._ And why did you click on the thread anyway? Here’s the title: \*\*Game of thrones: Who the fuck am I supposed to be rooting for? [Spoilers] \*\* Where does it say TV show in the title? No, the title doesn’t even imply it’s about the TV show, and it warns you there are **SPOILERS.** Yet you entered the thread anyway- thus you deserve anything you read. If you didn’t want to be spoiled, why did you even click on the thread? **You wuz warned.** Now you’re just trying to drum up fault for your own actions. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/63 "2014-03-16T18:33:25Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Folks, let’s try not to derail the thread on this topic. I have asked the mods to edit the title to include [TV Show Spoilers] instead of [Spoilers] to make it clear that it may contain spoilers from the TV Show and not from the books. Dropped. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/64 "2014-03-16T18:43:35Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > I think what Arya did was completely justified. She just saw her brother’s headless corpse being paraded around with a wolf’s head on top, and she heard that guy boasting that he was the one who put the wolf’s head on top of the body, and laughing about it. I think any sane human would have wanted to stab him and kill him. No fault whatsoever on Arya’s part. Oh I agree it’s JUSTIFIED, but it’s also not something that a canonically heroic character would do, and it’s easy to imagine it being a first step on a very dark road. > [@](#): > > Pycelle: I have no idea what his deal or motivations are (People mentioned Varys and Baelish as being inscrutable, but I think it’s clear what their motivations are) I don’t think Varys’s motives are clear. He certainly likes to present himself as someone who is purely interested in the good of the kingdom, but remember back in season 1 he was seen to be conspiring with Magister Illyrio (the guy who arranged Dany’s marriage to Khal Drogo), apparently to help get the Targaryens back in charge. If you think about how much blood and destruction would certainly accompany a Targaryen re-conquest, it’s hard to fit that in with his stated goals. On the other hand, he doesn’t seem particularly hungry for personal power or wealth or fame. > [@](#): > > She deserves what she gets, for lying about what she saw in that first incident with Arya and Joffrey (which resulted in the butcher boy being killed) So lying about one incident, as a teenager who has just been introduced to the prince she thinks she is going to marry and live happily ever after with, is a sufficient crime that it deserves to be punished by having her family slaughtered, being held captive for years, being toyed with and abused by Joffrey, and then being forcibly married to a dwarf who is the son/uncle/brother of her captors? That’s pretty harsh. > [@](#): > > Daenerys: Seems like a megalomaniac, plus ruthless, so I don’t consider her one of the good guys. Would she kill an innocent person, or let an innocent person come to harm, to further her goals? > [@](#): > > Tywin: I admire him. He is strong, but seems principled and not a psychopath who wants to see people die or suffer. However, he is indeed quite ruthless and is a dick towards Tyrion, so he is not that sympathetic. But compared to all the “bad guys” I like him the most. He’s a fascinating and entertaining character, and he’s not a sadist, and he might even be a good choice for person-you’d-want-to-have-in-charge-of-your-kingdom, but he’s unquestionably ruthless and evil. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/65 "2014-03-16T18:43:36Z")
**Dr Deth** , given your long-held and very public position on spoilers with this material, I find your behavior disingenuous in the extreme. I’ll edit the thread title, but everyone please be aware that this is a show where a lot of very avid fans of the TV show have _not_ read the books, and please do _not_ post material from the books that has not aired yet in the TV show. If anyone wants to discuss spoilers vs. non-spoilers, take it to ATMB – it’s off-topic in this thread. **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/66 "2014-03-16T18:47:35Z")
Hmm i think you changed the title to the opposite of what it was supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/67 "2014-03-16T18:53:00Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Daenerys watched as her husband murdered her brother in front of her and didn’t stop it, among other not-so-nice things she’s done. It’s implied that Viserys inherited the psychopathic tendencies of Aerys, and more generally the insanity that plagued the Targaryen line, and that he would have been one of the worst kings Westeros had ever seen. It’s also clear that he terrorized Daenerys all her young life, and had originally planned to rape her before her wedding. And, oh yea, he committed a crime worthy of death under Dothraki law. She could probably have gotten her husband to spare his life, but I think it’s clear that by choosing not to, she did the realm a big favour. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/68 "2014-03-16T18:55:24Z")
I’m rooting for Daenerys, though I have some sympathies for Tyrion and even Stannis/Melisandre too. But basically, just root for anyone except the Greyjoys and their Iron Islanders. Or the Boltons, I guess. Those two families make a point of being bloodthirsty barbarians. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/69 "2014-03-16T19:00:26Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > But basically, just root for anyone except the Greyjoys and their Iron Islanders… Those two families make a point of being bloodthirsty barbarians. Yara doesn’t seem to be particularly bloodthirsty. I’m not rooting for Daenerys, just because I find that story line dull. Necessary, but dull. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/70 "2014-03-16T19:06:04Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Yara doesn’t seem to be particularly bloodthirsty. Well, keep in mind that in her day job, she’s a pirate. And not a comical hollywood talk-like-a-pirate-day pirate but the kind that kills and steals and pillages. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/71 "2014-03-16T19:08:27Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I agree with most of the rest of your post, but I don’t think the books (or show) are trying to say that there are no heroes among the aristocracy. Ned Stark was a hero. Brienne is a hero(ine) and is a member of the ruling class. I don’t think the book is saying “you think Ned or Brienne are pure heroes? Nope, turns out each one is just as self-interested and greedy as Cersei or Littlefinger, they’re all scumbags, workers of the world unite”. I suppose it depends on what you think a “hero” is. I think that in larger society—and it seems for the OP as well—a “hero” is someone not only with all the good qualities we admire, but also someone who in the end triumphs. Ned Stark did the opposite of that. Brienne might have some admirable qualities, but she has accomplished very little in terms of doing good. Furthermore, I think it’s important to note another thing that Martin is showing us, that even those people we think are the best guys, if we really looked at them with cold eyes, we would find that we don’t admire all their values. A lot of people think that Ned Stark is a fool for doggedly sticking to his honor in the face of information that should have persuaded him to be more cunning. The Starks also have values that I would consider reprehensible, like their views on the death penalty. Brienne herself is a bit of a dunderhead. In my view, failing, particularly so early in the story, violates most commonly held notions of what it takes to be a hero. > [@Polerius](#): > > I think what Arya did was completely justified. She just saw her brother’s headless corpse being paraded around with a wolf’s head on top, and she heard that guy boasting that he was the one who put the wolf’s head on top of the body, and laughing about it. I think any sane human would have wanted to stab him and kill him. No fault whatsoever on Arya’s part. Wanting to stab someone and actually doing it are very different things. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/72 "2014-03-16T19:08:45Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Well, keep in mind that in her day job, she’s a pirate. And not a comical hollywood talk-like-a-pirate-day pirate but the kind that kills and steals and pillages. No doubt. She’s a reaver and a pillager, and she’s killed a lot of people. But it’s just part of the job. Theon was cruel to prove his manliness. Dear Old Dad was a prick. The sailors were bloodthirsty, but they weren’t in charge. Yara seems to have some scruples. At least she cares about her little brother, whom nobody else likes. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/73 "2014-03-16T19:10:52Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I also feel like we might be entering LOST territory here with a shaggy dog story with poorly defined “villains”. I’m suspicious it is going on so long with us the audience knowing: > > What is the real story/conflict? > > What are the motivations of the “villains”? > > Even beyond the ice monsters we don’t know what Varis or Littlefinger are doing, or what motivates them. Hell the first episode? features a mysterious meeting that had still not been explained, but seems clear Varis set up the whole series including Dany, why? Who knows. Some of these questions aren’t answerable yet from the point of the TV show. Perhaps it’s a limitation of the medium. But I don’t think that there are any significant characters that turn out to be one-dimensional cartoons, not even Joffrey or Ramsey. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/74 "2014-03-16T19:39:04Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Hmm i think you changed the title to the opposite of what it was supposed to be. Okay, how’s that? (And this, boys and girls, is why the CS mods effin’ _hate_ GOT season.) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/75 "2014-03-16T19:41:08Z")
I’m not the op but i believe he meant for the thread to only have TV spoilers. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/76 "2014-03-16T19:48:23Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I’m not the op but i believe he meant for the thread to only have TV spoilers. Yeah, but there are book spoilers here now, so if someone was okay with TV spoilers ( having watched all the seasons ) but not book spoilers, they’d be very unhappy reading my or **DrDeth** ’s posts. On reflection I’d be inclined to say delete both of them, since they are largely tangential to the larger topic anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/77 "2014-03-16T20:02:12Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Yeah, but there are book spoilers here now, so if someone was okay with TV spoilers ( having watched all the seasons ) but not book spoilers, they’d be very unhappy reading my or **DrDeth** ’s posts. > > On reflection I’d be inclined to say delete both of them, since they are largely tangential to the larger topic anyway. The OP said he’d finished season 3. TV show, obviously not the books. He said, “as a viewer,” not a “reader,” again, obviously not the books. He asked if there was anyone left that he was supposed to root for (potentially inviting spoilers from the books, I’ll grant) but didn’t ask “what happens to so-and-so.” If someone REALLY wanted spoilers from the books, there are WIKI pages out there aplenty. I think it’s pretty clear that it’s about the show. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/78 "2014-03-16T20:05:33Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Yeah, but there are book spoilers here now, so if someone was okay with TV spoilers ( having watched all the seasons ) but not book spoilers, they’d be very unhappy reading my or **DrDeth** ’s posts. > > On reflection I’d be inclined to say delete both of them, since they are largely tangential to the larger topic anyway. Sure. Ok by me. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/79 "2014-03-16T21:36:08Z")
At this point (after book five) I’m rooting for the zombies. And maybe for Martin to get hit by a Buick, if it means he finishes the series. Then again, look what that got us for the Dark Tower. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785/80 "2014-03-16T21:49:07Z")
All of the characters have their good sides and their bad sides; some are just a _lot_ more bad than others. That said, Brienne of Tarth is my heroine - honorable, determined, skilled in battle, and tragically out of step with her society. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-who-the-fuck-am-i-supposed-to-be-rooting-for-book-spoilers-for-tv/683785.md?page=5)