# Game of Thrones, Winter is Coming, 4/17/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 18, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781 "2011-04-18T01:17:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/221 "2011-04-21T16:17:33Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Ahem: > > You certainly can’t blame all of Robert’s problems on Cersei, but she’s subject to blame for most of the _kingdom_’s problems. Although I loathe Cersei, I’m not sure that’s true (at least not at the beginning of the series, when no one knows about Joffrey and Tommen’s true parentage). It’s Robert’s profligate ways which have nearly bankrupted the kingdom, and his disinterest in the more 'boring" aspects of ruling which have left Littlefinger, Stannis, and Greyjoy far too much room for troublemaking. Robert would have been a lousy king no matter who he married, because he’s just not that interested in the actual job. He wanted revenge on the Targaryeans, first and foremost; the throne was an afterthought, and it shows. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/222 "2011-04-21T16:49:26Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Ahem: > > True enough, but Lyanna was not fucking her brother (either one of them), and and would not have born their “heirs” to the throne. She was far more pragmatic than Cersei. You certainly can’t blame all of Robert’s problems on Cersei, but she’s subject to blame for most of the _kingdom_’s problems. That’s a fair point. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/223 "2011-04-21T17:59:52Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Although I loathe Cersei, I’m not sure that’s true (at least not at the beginning of the series, when no one knows about Joffrey and Tommen’s true parentage). It’s Robert’s profligate ways which have nearly bankrupted the kingdom, and his disinterest in the more 'boring" aspects of ruling which have left Littlefinger, Stannis, and Greyjoy far too much room for troublemaking. Robert would have been a lousy king no matter who he married, because he’s just not that interested in the actual job. He wanted revenge on the Targaryeans, first and foremost; the throne was an afterthought, and it shows. nothing to see here ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/224 "2011-04-21T18:05:46Z")
This thread has got to be great fun for people who aren’t familiar with the books and don’t want spoilers. Maybe we should run a spoilers thread and a spoiler free one. Would TPTB be ok with that? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/225 "2011-04-21T18:10:06Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > This thread has got to be great fun for people who aren’t familiar with the books and don’t want spoilers. > > Maybe we should run a spoilers thread and a spoiler free one. Would TPTB be ok with that? [del]Given that Littlefinger hasn’t even appeared in the show yet, we’re more catering to the books crowd here, and “Major Spoilers” is in the title, so not really a need for it. Any talk about even just the first book is going to have a LOT of spoilers, since the first ep of the show only covers 9 chapters out of 73.[/del] Never mind. I thought this was the Littlefinger thread, not the actual first episode thread. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/226 "2011-04-21T18:11:52Z")
I’d say a better way is to just start a new thread when the next episode comes out on Sunday. After all, pretty much everything that’s happened in the series so far has already been discussed a half a dozen different ways. You can only analyze so much from a single hour of TV after all. 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/227 "2011-04-21T18:14:15Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I’d say a better way is to just start a new thread when the next episode comes out on Sunday. After all, pretty much everything that’s happened in the series so far has already been discussed a half a dozen different ways. You can only analyze so much from a single hour of TV after all. 😉 > > -XT Fair enough. I just don’t want to scare away people who haven’t read the books. I want to hear what they think as the show goes on. Not that the analysis of everything else hasn’t been interesting. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/228 "2011-04-21T18:28:40Z")
It will probably break down into the same type of discussion after a couple of pages, as people want to discuss the series in relation to the books, but for the first couple of pages you can craft the new thread to try and focus on JUST the series…and then let us all get wild and wooly later on as everything that’s happened only in the series has been discussed. -XT ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/229 "2011-04-21T18:32:21Z")
I’m revising my opinion of how they’re going to fit the first book into 10 episodes. They managed to cover 9 chapters (and a prologue) in the first ep without really losing much, if any, of the story. There are 73 chapters in _Game_, so they have some room to maneuver. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/230 "2011-04-21T19:37:37Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > It will probably break down into the same type of discussion after a couple of pages, as people want to discuss the series in relation to the books, but for the first couple of pages you can craft the new thread to try and focus on JUST the series…and then let us all get wild and wooly later on as everything that’s happened only in the series has been discussed. > > -XT This is pretty much how I see them going. If the people that haven’t read the books want to discuss the series they are welcome to. I just think they probably don’t have as much to say at this point. Perhaps as the season goes on there will be more to say. Half my enjoyment of this, I think, will be seeing the reactions and reading review of people that haven’t read the series. I can sort of be a ASOIAF virgin again, vicariously. We could do two threads, but I don’t see the point. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/231 "2011-04-21T20:18:18Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > This thread has got to be great fun for people who aren’t familiar with the books and don’t want spoilers. > > Maybe we should run a spoilers thread and a spoiler free one. Would TPTB be ok with that? Ha ha ha, yeah, I read the first page then skipped to the last one. It isn’t that I don’t want to read the books, I just got sidetracked. For 9 years. And I need to work myself up to read such a long series. 😃 I figure around episode 6 we’ll hit a cliffhanger I won’t be able to wait for and I’ll read AGoT in a day. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/232 "2011-04-21T20:35:34Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > That’s probably because they didn’t have a relationship. Robert’s just obsessed with her. It’s pretty creepy actually. I’m not sure I’d go that far, but yeah, that’s what I meant. the whole Rhaegar/Lyanna/Robert triangle went over my head until I read about it later on the net. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/233 "2011-04-21T20:39:33Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > …We could do two threads, but I don’t see the point. Agreed. A new thread for each episode, methinks, and spoiler anything not revealed in that episode or those that came before. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/234 "2011-04-21T22:21:27Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > … I’ll read AGoT in a day. You’re gonna need a bigger day. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/235 "2011-04-21T22:24:49Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > You’re gonna need a bigger day. Just think if you read ADWD in a day. Then what? 6 years of more posting on the internet before the next one. ---
**Author:** ![Batsinma\_Belfry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@Batsinma\_Belfry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batsinma_Belfry)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/236 "2011-04-21T23:28:56Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Even then, I mean, let’s face it. We’re talking about a kingdom where a group of families rebelled and seized a throne and talk about the repercussions of it. > > Then we look at another group of characters, far away, talking about doing anything to get an army to get their throne back. > > Sherlock Holmes it doesn’t take. > > -Joe So I missed a couple of words in the dialogue, that would have made it crystal clear about the identity of the ultra blondes. Ya’ know why I probably did that? Because I don’t know these characters yet, and I’m just not that interested in everything they have to say. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/237 "2011-04-22T00:06:40Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Just think if you read ADWD in a day. Then what? 6 years of more posting on the internet before the next one. Well, it would’ve been 6 years, but then GRRM will get distracted by a football game or something and push it to 8. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/238 "2011-04-22T00:17:14Z")
> [@Batsinma\_Belfry](#): > > So I missed a couple of words in the dialogue, that would have made it crystal clear about the identity of the ultra blondes. Ya’ know why I probably did that? Because I don’t know these characters yet, and I’m just not that interested in everything they have to say. It’s not just a couple lines of dialogue. It’s a whole bunch of characters talking about the throne. Some people talk about having taken THRONE. Some people talk about wanting to regain a throne. This being a story with a plot structure rather than a bunch of random conversations overheard at a bar makes it pretty likely that they’re talking about the same throne. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/239 "2011-04-22T00:17:16Z")
> [@Batsinma\_Belfry](#): > > So I missed a couple of words in the dialogue, that would have made it crystal clear about the identity of the ultra blondes. Ya’ know why I probably did that? Because I don’t know these characters yet, and I’m just not that interested in everything they have to say. Yea, in a show that tosses dozens of new names at the audience in an hour, I think its pretty unlikely that most viewers will catch that the last name of the king Robert overthrew is the same as that of the blonde siblings. Especially since the focus of Roberts dialogue isn’t on the king he overthrew but on his regrets regarding Eddard’s sister. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781/240 "2011-04-22T02:22:57Z")
I thought it was very well done, but my almost constant thought as I watched was, “How could anyone who hasn’t read the book possibly know what is going on?” If I hadn’t read the book, I would have a hard time just knowing who was related, let alone all the plot subtleties and foreshadowing. If you _haven’t_ read the book, do yourself a favor and get it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winter-is-coming-4-17-11/578781.md?page=13)