# Game of Thrones "Winterfell" 8.01 4/14/19 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 14, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542 "2019-04-14T18:41:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/161 "2019-04-16T08:23:23Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Here’s the [pattern of the Wildling bodies](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/b9-3BEHlp9hXCG0BpzgEMXYi1XI=/1400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16028998/ep_1.jpg) from the first episode. Here’s the [Dragonstone painting](https://i.stack.imgur.com/1ItUk.jpg) with a similar image. > > Here’s the [dead horses](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d22df12fc9fca50089be8434d4dc5824.webp) arranged in a pinwheel after the Battle of the Fist of the First Men (Season Three). By the time Jon, Mance, and the Wildlings find them the Night’s Watch fatalities have been reanimated and only pieces of the horses remain. The pinwheel shape is basically the same found at the Umber’s castle and in some of the cave paintings. That’s the scene I was thinking of, thanks for finding a picture. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/162 "2019-04-16T11:12:35Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Did we see Podrick this episode? I assume he’s back in Winterfell. Initially I thought, “Of course he is, he was doing blacksmith stuff and talking to Arya”. Then I had my doubts and looked it up. Then realised that Podrick isn’t Genry. Doh! ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/163 "2019-04-16T11:36:22Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > The final scene underlines a concern of mine from the last season: Bran is way too overpowered a character. Potentially he knows everything, which undermines the plots contrived by the other characters, for example the plot to use Bronn to kill Jaime. An interesting move might be to kill him off at a crucial point leaving the other characters blind but I suspect he will continue to be used as a clumsy deus ex machina for revealing important information. Potentially knowing everything and actually knowing everything is quite a difference. Bran has to look for specific things or use animal scouts. He can’t just go to a weirwood tree and google “what are potential events that will harm our effort.” I agree that he’s very powerful and the deus ex machina that he can prevent isn’t super compelling. However, if the plot requires him/the Winterfell crew to be surprised then I see no contradiction there. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/164 "2019-04-16T13:16:42Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Rewatching that reminded me that the White Walkers arranged the dead Wildlings and their body parts in some sort of symbolic pattern, similar to what was seen at the end of this episode. > > Any idea what is up with that? I haven’t rewatched any episodes and don’t recall if we’ve seen other instances of this. At first I thought it was just a creepy symbol the White Walkers used to display how morbid and deadly they are. But something about the wight kid waking up this last episode and screaming makes me think these pinwheels are kind of like the weirwood network is for Bran and the Children. Portals that allow the WWs to spy on various places. I suspect the Night King saw and heard the plans Tormund, Beric and Edd made in that cavern. I wonder if Bran might be able to hijack and use them eventually, to see behind enemy lines. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/165 "2019-04-16T15:06:45Z")
A pretty good episode, I thought. Lots of reunions and setting up the chessboard for the carnage yet to come. Not enough Brienne, though. I need more Brienne! > [@N9IWP](#): > > …Sansa has a point about supplies, but I’m not expecting a long war. (If they defeat the WW, will spring return?) > It does make sense that [they] didn’t bring supplies – the Dothraki probably count on pillaging and the Unsullied are used to starving (though that has likely changed)… GOT has only made passing references to logistics. Over and over we see vast armies marching - hardly ever do we see all the wagons that would be carrying their supplies, or the raiding parties that would have to be out getting food from the oppressed peasantry. “Amateurs talk strategy; professionals talk logistics.” > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > …Most victories since then have been deus ex dragon or magical armada… Mark my words, Yara Greyjoy is going to come sailing to the rescue with her (by then much bigger) fleet sometime this season. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > … the fan theory I am going with is that Baelish is still alive. What we saw was a Faceless Man get it. I \*highly \*doubt that. Littlefinger is really most sincerely dead. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > When Arya said that about Sansa, I was…totally stunned. I’m thinking, wait…who has she met?.. Eh, that didn’t bother me. Just a bit of sisterly flattery, I thought. > [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > [Jaime] and Bran were the last scene of the first episode of the first season so it makes a nice symmetry… Nice catch! Hadn’t thought of that. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > There are a few times in the show where it is noted these were good men but dumb men. > > Indeed we get it at the end of season 7 where Cersei asks Jon to sit things out in Winterfell after the White Walkers are dealt with and Jon says he has pledged his allegiance to [Dany] so no can do… I never really bought that scene. Dany was sitting right there, and could easily’ve said, “Indeed you did pledge fealty, Jon Snow, which I greatly appreciate. However, now (a) I release from your vow, or (b) I command you to comply with Cersei’s request.” > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > My money is on Gendry [to win the Iron Throne] as a long shot. I doubt it, but could be! Stranger things have happened, and he _is_ a royal bastard of Robert’s, after all (perhaps the last one now living). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/166 "2019-04-16T15:07:22Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Also, the Golden Company may be there to fight for Cersei, but I suspect that if they run into the army of the dead they may simply fight for the living and join the northern alliance. Games of Thrones take a back seat to survival against pure evil. A probably better option is to come back to Essos. Zombies can’t swim, they say. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/167 "2019-04-16T15:15:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Given that Cersei was drinking wine like a fish in this episode, I think there are two conclusions: > > 1. She isn’t actually pregnant, and the pregnancy was a ruse for Tyrion. In that case, Sansa is right, and she’s smarter than Tyrion at least when it comes to evaluating Cersei. > > 2. She’s pregnant, but she’s fully in Mad Queen mode an doesn’t intend to survive until the baby is born. Her entire goal now is to murder her enemies then go out in a blaze of glory. There’s a third option : Women didn’t stop drinking wine when pregnant, back then. Abstaining from alcohol during pregnancy is a very recent concept. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/168 "2019-04-16T15:17:31Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > That’s the conclusion Tyrion jumped to when he observed she uncharacteristically wasn’t drinking. As far as I can tell, he mostly noted that she kept touching her belly. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/169 "2019-04-16T15:21:30Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > I thought that attack happened on the, er, north side of the Wall, and the survivor was captured by the Night’s Watch over there, then brought south to Winterfell. > > But I could be remembering wrong. It’ not specifically explained in fact. It might have happened way north of the wall, not close to it. And I don’t think the deserter was brought to Winterfell, I think he was caught there. I assume that if he had been caught by the night watch, they would have dealt with him themselves. The Lord commander clearly can sentence members of the watch to death himself. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/170 "2019-04-16T15:30:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I was wondering about that. Why didn’t Jon ask how Sam knew his true parentage? And yes, convincing everyone else is going to require some evidence. Didn’t Sam work most of it out through his research at the Citadel? > [@clairobscur](#): > > Women didn’t stop drinking wine when pregnant, back then. Abstaining from alcohol during pregnancy is a very recent concept. That’s true for Earth history. Westeros isn’t “Earth”. > [@N9IWP](#): > > …Sansa has a point about supplies, but I’m not expecting a long war. (If they defeat the WW, will spring return?) > It does make sense that [they] didn’t bring supplies – the Dothraki probably count on pillaging and the Unsullied are used to starving (though that has likely changed)…. I don’t think they (or we) know if there is a connection between the weather and the White Walkers. As far as they know, winter is coming regardless. I’m pretty sure pillaging Dothraki doesn’t sweeten the deal for Sansa. And what are tens of thousands of Dothraki going to pillage in the desolate, cold, sparsely populate climate of the North where all available food has probably already been squirrelled away in anticipation of the long winter? We actually don’t even know where or how Danayris feeds and clothes her army. Up until last season, her troops have been mostly fighting in the dry arid climate of Essos. Where did she suddenly produce fashionable winter gear for tens of thousands of soldiers? Does she have supply chains leading back to cities Essos? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/171 "2019-04-16T15:43:04Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Potentially knowing everything and actually knowing everything is quite a difference. Bran has to look for specific things or use animal scouts. He can’t just go to a weirwood tree and google “what are potential events that will harm our effort.” He also has to know what to look for. In the last season, he didn’t know Jon was the legitimate heir to the throne. He “watched” the marriage ceremony after Sam told him it had taken place. He also has no knowledge of the future, seemingly. But I agree that he’s overpowered and a too easy to use plot device. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/172 "2019-04-16T15:53:29Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I’m pretty sure pillaging Dothraki doesn’t sweeten the deal for Sansa. And what are tens of thousands of Dothraki going to pillage in the desolate, cold, sparsely populate climate of the North where all available food has probably already been squirrelled away in anticipation of the long winter? > > We actually don’t even know where or how Danayris feeds and clothes her army. Up until last season, her troops have been mostly fighting in the dry arid climate of Essos. Where did she suddenly produce fashionable winter gear for tens of thousands of soldiers? Does she have supply chains leading back to cities Essos? This last season is past “Winter is Coming” and into “Time has Stopped.” Need to get armies from several months travel away? Time has stopped. Need to feed and clothe those armies? Time has stopped. Need to get the Hound fighting the Mountain? Time has stopped. The only exceptions will be last minute deus ex machina rescues and whatever timeline Cersei’s baby is on. I understand why they’re doing this. Time lapses are the death of narrative action. Whole episodes will be taken up by battles, reducing the on-screen minutes for anything else. They need to create tidy endings for several dozen speaking characters. Nothing else matters to them, because they know they’ll be judged solely by how those lives - and deaths - are handled. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/173 "2019-04-16T16:06:03Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > GOT has only made passing references to logistics. Over and over we see vast armies marching - hardly ever do we see all the wagons that would be carrying their supplies, or the raiding parties that would have to be out getting food from the oppressed peasantry. “Amateurs talk strategy; professionals talk logistics.” We do have the example of Drogon lighting up the Lannister wagon train before Bronn shoots him with the Scorpion. Jamie tells Cersei that a 1000 wagons were burned. In retrospect, maybe they should have captured them and brought them to Winterfell. They probably did with whatever didn’t get torched. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/174 "2019-04-16T16:34:26Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > The final scene underlines a concern of mine from the last season: Bran is way too overpowered a character. Potentially he knows everything, which undermines the plots contrived by the other characters, for example the plot to use Bronn to kill Jaime. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Potentially knowing everything and actually knowing everything is quite a difference. Bran has to look for specific things or use animal scouts. He can’t just go to a weirwood tree and google “what are potential events that will harm our effort.” Right. Knowing everything in the entire world and its entire history actually limits Bran in some ways. He has the equivalent of a million Encyclopedia Britannicas to look through. He’s never met Bronn, so there’s no reason to look for him. Bronn didn’t even meet directly with Cersei, so even if he was keeping one of his three eyes on Cersei he might not realize that there was a plot. > [@DrCube](#): > > But something about the wight kid waking up this last episode and screaming makes me think these pinwheels are kind of like the weirwood network is for Bran and the Children. In the first episode, when the three members of the Night’s Watch find the dismembered Wildling bodies forming a pattern, there is also a young Wildling girl transfixed to tree but intact. She doesn’t reanimate at first but is later seen by Will walking around, the first wight we see. > [@clairobscur](#): > > It’ not specifically explained in fact. It might have happened way north of the wall, not close to it. And I don’t think the deserter was brought to Winterfell, I think he was caught there. I assume that if he had been caught by the night watch, they would have dealt with him themselves. The Lord commander clearly can sentence members of the watch to death himself. It definitely appears that it didn’t happen all that far north of the Wall. It seems that Will has been on the run ever since he saw the White Walker. He may have found some way to get back over the Wall without being detected. However, he could have reported back that his companions had been killed by Wildlings and then just deserted at the first opportunity. The fact that he was AWOL when Ned found him was sufficient reason to execute him. > [@clairobscur](#): > > There’s a third option : > > Women didn’t stop drinking wine when pregnant, back then. Abstaining from alcohol during pregnancy is a very recent concept. > [@clairobscur](#): > > As far as I can tell, he mostly noted that she kept touching her belly. Tyrion noticed two things: [That she didn’t drink the glass of wine that he put in front of her, and then touched her belly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shgozc3FKWY). There was no reason in that scene for the business of putting the wine in front of her unless it was meant to be significant. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/175 "2019-04-16T16:39:10Z")
Great to see the young Lady Lyanna Mormont, BTW, as fierce as ever. Here’s the actor who plays Sam talking about the scene with him and Jon Snow in the crypt: [Game of Thrones Season 8 Premiere: John Bradley on Jon Snow Revelation](https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/game-of-thrones-john-bradley-crypt-scene-revelation-1203189958/) > [@aurora\_maire](#): > > …It was great to actually see Winterfell. I didn’t realize that the weirwood tree was within the compound. I always thought they were going somewhere outside… Exposed to the elements, but walled. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Also this… > > Hound: You left me to die. > Arya: I robbed you first. Heh. My favorite line of the evening. The runner-up: Edd: “Stand back, he’s got blue eyes!” Tormund: “I’ve \*always \*had blue eyes!” > [@Smid](#): > > For Cersei: > > [The Simpons - Where’s my elephant?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaYc5UP8PsI) Maybe she would’ve named them all Stampy. > [@aurora\_maire](#): > > In any normal TV show, it would look like Bronn was going to betray his buddies but he would pull a fast one in the end to save them. But here, I’m expecting Bronn to do something horrific to one or both. Or maybe something horrific to one that saves the other. Could be. Remember Bronn is all about being paid. Didn’t he tell Tyrion he’d kill a baby if the money was right? But he has a heart of gold, deep down, so I suspect he’ll come over to the Lannister Brothers’ side in the end. > [@Colibri](#): > > Here’s the [pattern of the Wildling bodies](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/b9-3BEHlp9hXCG0BpzgEMXYi1XI=/1400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16028998/ep_1.jpg) from the first episode. Here’s the [Dragonstone painting](https://i.stack.imgur.com/1ItUk.jpg) with a similar image. > > Here’s the [dead horses](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d22df12fc9fca50089be8434d4dc5824.webp) arranged in a pinwheel after the Battle of the Fist of the First Men (Season Three). By the time Jon, Mance, and the Wildlings find them the Night’s Watch fatalities have been reanimated and only pieces of the horses remain. The pinwheel shape is basically the same found at the Umber’s castle and in some of the cave paintings. Thanks for those links. _Westworld_, another HBO show, has been doing something similar with mazes and mysterious symbolism. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/176 "2019-04-16T16:58:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Tyrion noticed two things: [That she didn’t drink the glass of wine that he put in front of her, and then touched her belly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shgozc3FKWY). There was no reason in that scene for the business of putting the wine in front of her unless it was meant to be significant. Chekhov’s wineglass? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/177 "2019-04-16T17:42:43Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I understand why they’re doing this. Time lapses are the death of narrative action. Whole episodes will be taken up by battles, reducing the on-screen minutes for anything else. They need to create tidy endings for several dozen speaking characters. Nothing else matters to them, because they know they’ll be judged solely by how those lives - and deaths - are handled. The real reason is that we’ve condensed the entire story to two main locations. Before, you could jump around. Each episode might have 5 or 6 locations, but if you break it down, the plot might only be moving in 1 or 2 of them. They can’t do that anymore. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/178 "2019-04-16T18:12:38Z")
At the end of the very first episode Ned tells Jon “next time we see each other we will talk about your mother”, fitting that it was in the crypt in front of Ned’s statue that Sam tells him about his mother (and father). ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/179 "2019-04-16T18:14:26Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > At the end of the very first episode Ned tells Jon “next time we see each other we will talk about your mother”, fitting that it was in the crypt in front of Ned’s statue that Sam tells him about his mother (and father). During the crypt scene, there was a small statue of a boy with a dog on a leash. That Rickon? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542/180 "2019-04-16T18:22:28Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > “What is dead may never die” are some really discouraging parting words when you are off to fight the zombie horde. Well, the way I would look at it is that, if the undead were dead, they can become redead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-winterfell-8-01-4-14-19/832542.md?page=10)