# Game of Thrones, You Win or You Die, 5/22/11 and 5/29/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 22, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825 "2011-05-22T22:58:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/241 "2011-06-03T21:48:09Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Because there’s only one munchkin in the show so far? > > Too much? > > -Joe Not for me. One munchkin seems about right for a show of this type. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/242 "2011-06-03T23:06:52Z")
Just to be clear: The Kingsroad is NOT paved with yellow bricks. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/243 "2011-06-03T23:11:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > :smack: Milk of the _poppy_! Of course! Milk of the _poppy_! > > Just now I realized why “milk of the puppy” sounded odd. Thanks for that. I wondered what kind of painkillers they made from puppy milk. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/244 "2011-06-04T00:22:12Z")
So you’re telling me I wasn’t the only one? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/245 "2011-06-04T00:49:20Z")
I thought it was “milk of the puppy” also, but I figured it was just a name/colloquialism, nothing literal. We’ve got plenty of medicines that are called something that isn’t related to what they actually are. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/246 "2011-06-04T02:16:31Z")
[Milk of the poppy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_poppy) ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/247 "2011-06-04T02:50:13Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > [Milk of the poppy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_poppy) Thanks for the spoiler. :dubious: /flees I was _so_ enjoying the idea of milking puppies. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/248 "2011-06-04T04:30:39Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > [Milk of the poppy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_poppy) Thanks for the info that I had already figured out. Where were you when I thought I heard “milk of the puppy”? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/249 "2011-06-04T07:57:10Z")
Anyone feeling a wee bit sorry for Theon? He seems to get the worse of practically every exchange, no matter how low on the social scale the other person is. If he bandied words with Mord the jailer, you still feel he would come in second. Particularly enjoyed that exchange between him and Maester Luwin: Luwin: Theon Greyjoy, the lady is our guest Theon: I thought she was our prisoner. Luwin: Are the two mutually exclusive in your experience? The most elegant putdown I have heard in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/250 "2011-06-04T14:37:54Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > The most elegant putdown I have heard in a while. Particularly considering that Theon is the Starks’ prisoner but they’ve treated him like a guest. But, otherwise, no, Theon is such a little shit that it’s hard to feel bad for him in general. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/251 "2011-06-04T15:02:34Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Where were you when I thought I heard “milk of the puppy”? [Milking the dog](http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/880005483). ‘Red rocket! Red rocket!’ ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/252 "2011-06-04T15:30:23Z")
Well, my prediction that Robert would kick the bucket soon came true, but I didn’t expect that Ned would make a dog’s breakfast of the situation so quickly. I assumed he had some sense of biding his time until the moment was right. He basically did everything wrong. ---
**Author:** ![beartato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@beartato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beartato)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/253 "2011-06-04T17:47:27Z")
So I’ve never read the books, but am watching the series. Never thought I’d be saying these words, but my goodness that’s excessive nudity. Even for HBoobsO. I think I’m more familiar with Ros’s nipples than my own. Anyway, I know Cersei is presented as a villain, and while I’m not questioning that, I’m thinking some of the things she’s done are kind of explainable. But I’m not sure if I’ve picked up on everything that’s going on, so someone please correct me here (and again, this is series only, not books): 1. Cersei had a son who died. The first of her children. If wasn’t mis-hearing, she described him to Ned’s wife as a “black-haired beauty” - most likely the child of her and Robert, not a result of twincest. 2. At first, Cersei was in love with Robert, but he was and is (and then was) in love with a dead girl (Ned’s sister). Though she was probably expecting her husband to take other lovers, she probably wasn’t expecting him to be in love with someone else. So, a fairly vain woman did something unsurprising and took up/continued a love affair with her twin brother (pretty much the family motto, according to her)… 3)…thinking she had produced an heir to the king anyway. But he died, and she ended up with three illegitimate bleach-blonde children. Luckily, no one ever questioned it. Except Arryn, then Ned. By that point, one would hardly expect her to just say, “Yup, banging my brother, sorry. Lannister tradition and all that”. So am I being too fair to Cersei? Did I misinterpret something along the line? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/254 "2011-06-04T18:07:00Z")
> [@beartato](#): > > So I’ve never read the books, but am watching the series. Never thought I’d be saying these words, but my goodness that’s excessive nudity. Even for HBoobsO. I think I’m more familiar with Ros’s nipples than my own. > Anyway, I know Cersei is presented as a villain, and while I’m not questioning that, I’m thinking some of the things she’s done are kind of explainable. But I’m not sure if I’ve picked up on everything that’s going on, so someone please correct me here (and again, this is series only, not books): > > 1. Cersei had a son who died. The first of her children. If wasn’t mis-hearing, she described him to Ned’s wife as a “black-haired beauty” - most likely the child of her and Robert, not a result of twincest. > 2. At first, Cersei was in love with Robert, but he was and is (and then was) in love with a dead girl (Ned’s sister). Though she was probably expecting her husband to take other lovers, she probably wasn’t expecting him to be in love with someone else. So, a fairly vain woman did something unsurprising and took up/continued a love affair with her twin brother (pretty much the family motto, according to her)… > 3)…thinking she had produced an heir to the king anyway. But he died, and she ended up with three illegitimate bleach-blonde children. Luckily, no one ever questioned it. Except Arryn, then Ned. By that point, one would hardly expect her to just say, “Yup, banging my brother, sorry. Lannister tradition and all that”. > > So am I being too fair to Cersei? Did I misinterpret something along the line? One thing, incest is not a Lannister tradition, but a Targaryen one. Other than that, your facts are correct. Opinions definitely differ on what that says about her character though. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/255 "2011-06-04T19:38:37Z")
I thought it was very curious that the description she gave Cat of her kids death matched almost exactly the description Ned got of Jon Arryn’s death. Sudden fever, quick death. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/256 "2011-06-04T19:38:46Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > One thing, incest is not a Lannister tradition, but a Targaryen one. Other than that, your facts are correct. Opinions definitely differ on what that says about her character though. Remember, the Targaryans were originally foreigners who conquered the Seven Kingdoms, and as foreigners, they had different customs (including royal incest). In Cersei’s mind, the Lannisters were just as worthy as the Targaryans, and as such deserved to exercise the same rights. It’s a mixture of excessive pride and self-justification. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/257 "2011-06-04T23:48:39Z")
And that damned cultural relativism. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/258 "2011-06-05T00:14:44Z")
> [@beartato](#): > > So am I being too fair to Cersei? Did I misinterpret something along the line? You might also consider that her conversation with Ned about Robert and her kids doesn’t jibe with the conversation where we find out about the first kid. She is lying (at least partially) in one of those conversations. Which one and why is an interesting question, and the answer changes how you would view her character quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/259 "2011-08-17T14:27:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yep, I was specifically waiting to hear it, but no “clunk”. ☹ I liked the “clunk.” ☹ > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Moreover, he had developed a high regard for Dany (as well as an erotic/romantic attraction to her) and might have decided that she’d be a better monarch of Westeros than Robert ever had been. Which is sort of a strange decision for him to make. I mean, regardless of Dany’s qualities as monarch, the process of installing her is going to be pretty brutal even by the normal standards of Seven Kingdoms infighting. Getting sacked by the Dothraki is clearly a Very Bad Thing - not the sort of thing a decent man wishes on his homeland. > [@Merijeek](#): > > Me too, and Ros is absolutely gorgeous. But man, a whole scene of ‘whore training’ just seemed gratuitous. > -Joe I thought of it as Littlefinger’s Al Swearingen moment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825.md?page=12)