# Game of Thrones, You Win or You Die, 5/22/11 and 5/29/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 22, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825 "2011-05-22T22:58:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/161 "2011-06-01T12:47:43Z")
Someone upthread said that Dany is the only one left that deserves the throne. When Drogo was doing his “hear the lamentations of their women” speech, I told my husband that their son is the legitimage heir to the throne. Imagine Drogo as King. Instead of jousts there’d be raw heart eating contests. Littlefinger would be out of a job. If you want a woman, just bend her over in the middle of the town square and have at it! ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/162 "2011-06-01T14:39:17Z")
I’m guessing that Ned’s going to soon be put to rest. He was warned to not trust anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/163 "2011-06-01T14:45:28Z")
I hope he lives long enough to see his good daughter ram a sword through Joffrey’s guts. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/164 "2011-06-01T15:39:05Z")
Until this episode, hubby wanted Ned to end up king. Now he’s rooting for Jon Snow. I think Jon is like Ed only stupi. . ., I mean more naive. The White Walkers need to come and chop them all to pieces because that’s what they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/165 "2011-06-01T15:43:59Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Until this episode, hubby wanted Ned to end up king. Now he’s rooting for Jon Snow. John Snow is not a legitmate heir to Ned, so there is no way Snow could end up as king. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/166 "2011-06-01T15:53:58Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > John Snow is not a legitmate heir to Ned, so there is no way Snow could end up as king. Never say never. Stranger things have happened. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/167 "2011-06-01T16:01:49Z")
Joffrey is not a legitimate heir to Robert. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/168 "2011-06-01T16:09:02Z")
Poor Sensa. She’s just a child. She hasn’t even ‘bled’ yet. Imagine pop-star Justin Dumbhair told any 13 year old how much he loved her and that he’d make her his Princess. Any pre-teen would flip out if their dad told the no. And Dumbhair doesn’t have a real kingdom to make her a princess in. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/169 "2011-06-01T16:11:02Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Joffrey is not a legitimate heir to Robert. Just sayin’. Robert wasn’t the legitimate heir to the throne either. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/170 "2011-06-01T16:11:10Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Joffrey is not a legitimate heir to Robert. Just sayin’. Yeah, at this point there are really only two legitimate heirs - Dany and Stannis. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/171 "2011-06-01T16:11:14Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Poor Sensa. She’s just a child. She hasn’t even ‘bled’ yet. Imagine pop-star Justin Dumbhair told any 13 year old how much he loved her and that he’d make her his Princess. Any pre-teen would flip out if their dad told the no. And Dumbhair doesn’t have a real kingdom to make her a princess in. She also doesn’t have a lot of choice. For most of the series she thinks she’ll have to marry Joffery whether she likes him or not, so I can’t really blame her for bending over backwards to see him in a good light. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/172 "2011-06-01T16:19:20Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Joffrey is not a legitimate heir to Robert. Just sayin’. But Ned never got an opportunity to challenge Joffrey on that point. Snow is not even a pretender, like Joffrey, he’s commonly known as Ned’s bastard. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/173 "2011-06-01T16:34:31Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Interesting that Joffrey seems the worst possible candidate for the kinship, even among all the other bottom crawlers. > > I have to give credit to the kid acting that role. I really hate his guts, just as I’m supposed to. ` I don’t think Joffrey is the worst possible candidate for kingship, his idea to have a standing royal army instead of relying on the whims of his lords for example was a fairly good one. Ned would have made a worse king, so would Cersei. Littlefinger and Tywin would both make great kings, evil does not necessarily mean bad ruler. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/174 "2011-06-01T16:35:12Z")
I want to bring up a topic that might be forbidden because it deals with theories formulated by people who have read the books (out in the world, not on these boards) but are purely speculation and deal with issues that have almost entirely been presented in the series. Would it be ok to put them under a spoiler box? I think right about now they might be interesting to people who are watching the series but haven’t read the books. There wouldn’t be any new information but it might shed a different perspective on some events. I can PM **Snarky\_Kong** to make a final ruling on how spoiler-y the topic would be if we like since I don’t want to spoiler box anything here yet. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/175 "2011-06-01T16:37:42Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > evil does not necessarily mean bad ruler. No, but he is also self centered with sadistic tendencies. He would be like the worst possible version of Robert, and Robert was a bad king. He had good ideas, but he was a bad King. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/176 "2011-06-01T16:39:27Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Robert wasn’t the legitimate heir to the throne either. On what basis? His family is ruling the family of one the seven kingdoms. He was the heir to that family’s kingdom. I believe that it will come to a battle between Joffrey (controlled by his mother) and Dragon queen (supported by her husband and his horde). ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/177 "2011-06-01T16:46:06Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > On what basis? His family is ruling the family of one the seven kingdoms. He was the heir to that family’s kingdom. On the basis that he lead a revolt against the legitimate king and usurped the throne. Before the Dragons there was no King of the seven realms. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/178 "2011-06-01T17:10:46Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I think they just put the word out. “Kill Daenerys Targaryen and get 1,000 gold dragons!” He’s apparently just some chump that heard about the reward. The way I fanwanked it was, he was an agent or partisan of some side or other operating under cover of being a wine merchant, he’s just playing his role til he finds out Daenerys is his customer. He knows from communiques his side wants Daenerys dead, so he does a quick improv with the poison as he sees opportunity is knocking. From his POV it goes disastrously wrong, but hey, that’s part of the whole agent/improv business. Knowing the Dothraki, I’d have drunk the wine … a much less painful death than what the king would provide. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/179 "2011-06-01T19:40:48Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I want to bring up a topic that might be forbidden because it deals with theories formulated by people who have read the books (out in the world, not on these boards) but are purely speculation and deal with issues that have almost entirely been presented in the series. > > Would it be ok to put them under a spoiler box? I think right about now they might be interesting to people who are watching the series but haven’t read the books. There wouldn’t be any new information but it might shed a different perspective on some events. > > I can PM **Snarky\_Kong** to make a final ruling on how spoiler-y the topic would be if we like since I don’t want to spoiler box anything here yet. Please don’t. We’ve got a couple of other threads to discuss matters like that. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825/180 "2011-06-01T20:18:59Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Please don’t. We’ve got a couple of other threads to discuss matters like that. I actually was specifically interested in bringing it up in the TV thread as it’s a topic that has been discussed in the other threads, but I decided against it anyway. Like I said, it doesn’t bring in anything that hasn’t already been seen in the show, but I won’t bring in conversation that existed before the show either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-you-win-or-you-die-5-22-11-and-5-29-11/582825.md?page=10)