# Game on - North Korea **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 4, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206 "2006-07-04T21:39:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/21 "2006-07-05T00:33:37Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] I’m not that worried about NK. We still have a policy of mutually assured destruction, don’t we? I haven’t read anything leading me to believe NK thinks MAD would be fun. Now Iran OTOH, I’d be a little worried. [/QUOTE] I don’t know. NK really has nothing to lose here. The general populace is starving and anti-Kim Jong Il movements have actually had enough balls to post signs. Information from the outside world _is_ beginning to trickle through degree by agonizing degree. KJI is not the most mentally stable world leader out there either, although he _is_ gaining a reputation for shrewdness. NK truly is a riddle, and I’m not at all sure we’re going to enjoy the snappy answer. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/22 "2006-07-05T00:36:32Z")
> [@](#): > > I suspect several significant North Korean scientists are now quite dead. That’s what happens when you use your scientists as missle pilots. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/23 "2006-07-05T00:43:35Z")
[QUOTE=Linty Fresh] I don’t know. NK really has nothing to lose here. The general populace is starving and anti-Kim Jong Il movements have actually had enough balls to post signs. Information from the outside world _is_ beginning to trickle through degree by agonizing degree. [/QUOTE] Cite? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/24 "2006-07-05T00:51:09Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] The Chinese wouldn’t have to act. The Japanese people would have you out of office incredibly quickly. I doubt you’d be in office at the end of the day if you made those comments. And China wouldn’t be too happy with a Japanese Prime Minister giving them orders. That would be the worst diplomatic tussle Japan has ever seen since WWII. [/QUOTE] Well, I’d say it very nicely, with a few _arigato gozaymashita_s thrown in! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/25 "2006-07-05T00:59:03Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Cite? [/QUOTE] [Here’s](http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=5145) an article about how cell phone usage has been increasing in NK despite the ban. The article was printed in 2005, but it made the news in Korean language newspapers before the English language ones. [Here’s](http://freekorea.blogspot.com/2004/11/fear-and-loathing-in-pyongyang.html) a story (Third one down) about demonstrations and anti-Jong Il slogans appearing in NK. Once again, I’ve read the original Korean articles, and this blogging isn’t an exaggeration. Oh, NK is still the most repressive regime in the world, make no mistake, but I don’t think Kim Jong Il can hold out forever. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/26 "2006-07-05T01:04:16Z")
[QUOTE=Linty Fresh] Oh, NK is still the most repressive regime in the world, make no mistake, but I don’t think Kim Jong Il can hold out forever. [/QUOTE] How exactly should we feel about that? _Aprez moi, le deluge!_ ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/27 "2006-07-05T01:08:24Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] How exactly should we feel about that? _Aprez moi, le deluge!_ [/QUOTE] LOL, no doubt! But then again, when it comes to North Korea, all bets are off. When Churchill called Russia “a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma” it was because North Korea hadn’t been formed yet. Short answer is that your guess is as good as mine. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/28 "2006-07-05T02:27:53Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] We need to take these fuckers OUT. [/QUOTE] Do you think that George W. Bush, Hu Jintao, Wen Jiabao, Roh Moo-hyun, and Han Myeong-sook could all agree on the appropriate restaurant that serves good Kim Chee (with barbecue sauce)? How are you going to take him out if you can’t even agree on a restaurant? ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/29 "2006-07-05T02:30:19Z")
[QUOTE=nameless] My immediate reaction is that I think we should station intercept units in or around Japan and attempt to shoot down every single long range missile the North Koreans test-fire. I think it would be hilarious. But that may not be the best thing to do, politically speaking. [/QUOTE] Leaving aside the political shrewdness, we also, as far as I know, don’t have the technology to do this. What we have is a system that is aimed at shooting down ICBMs in the midcourse stage…and given that it was only 50-50 at destroying warheads in **highly** -scripted tests, I think we’d be in for a similar embarrassment as NK had with their missile launch if we actually tried to use it to shoot something down. ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/30 "2006-07-05T03:10:15Z")
[QUOTE=jshore] What we have is a system that is aimed at shooting down ICBMs in the midcourse stage…and given that it was only 50-50 at destroying warheads in **highly** -scripted tests, I think we’d be in for a similar embarrassment as NK had with their missile launch if we actually tried to use it to shoot something down. [/QUOTE] The [Aegis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Ballistic_Missile_Defense_System) ship-based missile system seems fairly capable–certainly more so than the ground-based version that I think is the system you’re referring to. 4 out of 5 successful tests isn’t abysmal (of course, we must consider that the 1/5 corresponds to hundreds of thousands of fatalities). However, the Wiki entry notes that the Aegis missile is effective against short and medium range missiles–no mention of long range missiles. At any rate, I’m not a major proponent of missile defense. If someone can show me that the technological applications of such a program extend beyond its stated purpose, I might be more supportive. Even at a high rate of efficacy, such a system’s usefulness is not immediately apparent to me. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/31 "2006-07-05T03:37:09Z")
[QUOTE=nameless] My immediate reaction is that I think we should station intercept units in or around Japan and attempt to shoot down every single long-range missile the North Koreans test-fire. I think it would be hilarious. [/QUOTE] If you use the Reagan doctrine you wait 10 years for them to perfect a working model and THEN you shoot it down. Thus causing them to start another gazillion dollar missile program. Keeps them busy perfecting old technology. The launch of a single long range Taepodong-2 missile was deliberately done on the 4th of July as a big “up yours” to the United States. Kinda emasculating for Kim Jong Il since he couldn’t get it up. Even more so since the US put a shuttle into orbit on the same day. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/32 "2006-07-05T03:42:04Z")
[QUOTE=nameless] The [Aegis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Ballistic_Missile_Defense_System) ship-based missile system seems fairly capable–certainly more so than the ground-based version that I think is the system you’re referring to. 4 out of 5 successful tests isn’t abysmal (of course, we must consider that the 1/5 corresponds to hundreds of thousands of fatalities). However, the Wiki entry notes that the Aegis missile is effective against short and medium range missiles–no mention of long range missiles. At any rate, I’m not a major proponent of missile defense. If someone can show me that the technological applications of such a program extend beyond its stated purpose, I might be more supportive. Even at a high rate of efficacy, such a system’s usefulness is not immediately apparent to me. [/QUOTE] The success rate goes up appreciably when you use a nuclear warhead. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/33 "2006-07-05T20:05:42Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] But - but - the US has nuclear missiles! Why shouldn’t a gangster regime headed up by a homicidal maniac who starves his people, peddles terrorism, invades its neighbors and kidnaps foreigners not have the same? Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Talk about a straight line. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/34 "2006-07-05T20:37:31Z")
Really, how **could** we “take out” NK? Nuking Pyongyang is unacceptable for a dozen obvious reasons, and we can’t spare the ground troops for an invasion – too many of our forces are tied down in Iraq and Afthanistan. (A fact of which Kim Jong Il and Ahmedinejad are both, doubtless, very strongly aware.) Even if we could spare the troops, the South Koreans wouldn’t want a war, because Kim is prepared to flatten Seoul with **conventional** long-range artillery in the first hour of the war. Both sides lose. What’s that leave us? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/35 "2006-07-05T21:42:27Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Do you think that George W. Bush, Hu Jintao, Wen Jiabao, Roh Moo-hyun, and Han Myeong-sook could all agree on the appropriate restaurant that serves good Kim Chee (with barbecue sauce)? How are you going to take him out if you can’t even agree on a restaurant? [/QUOTE] Can someone _else_ take them out? I’ve seen photos of these guys, and there ain’t a one of them I’d want to date! ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/36 "2006-07-05T21:53:52Z")
Emphasis mine (quote from nameless’s post): > [@](#): > > North Korea has given various names to the Taep’o-dong missile, such as **No-dong-3** I say we engage in a pro-active media campaign to mock the North Koreans’ sexual prowess. Their males will be so embarassed, they’ll run for cover, leaving NK pretty much without an army. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/37 "2006-07-05T22:22:54Z")
[Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=273183&highlight=korea) is a thread I started a couple of years ago on a potential North Korean attack on Alaska. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/38 "2006-07-05T22:47:41Z")
[QUOTE=dalej42] [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=273183&highlight=korea) is a thread I started a couple of years ago on a potential North Korean attack on Alaska. [/QUOTE] [shrug] So we strike back with moose cavalry and kayak flotillas! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/39 "2006-07-05T22:48:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Now, now, George Bush isn’t that bad! Well since Democracy and rule of law are inheirently superior to Kims personality cult, that’s a good enough reason to not allow him to have weapons capability to attack the US and it’s allies in the region. > [@](#): > > Threaten NK with military action, and they’ll laugh- America doesn’t have the troops in South Korea to stop a NKean invasion. Attempt it, and the NKeans will win, probably forcing America to threaten nuclear involvement to protect SK. And, of course, the best way to get NK to use its nukes is through brining military force You are obviously joking, because such an assertion is promptly ridiculous since you’ve completely ignored the prowess of the South Korean military, and their ability even without US help, to completely destroy the North Korean military. Not to mention that the North Korean military is in such a dilapidated state (due to lack of spare parts) that it relies on drug smuggling and counterfeiting to finance itself. > **[Korean People's Army](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_North_Korea)** > > Organizations Cabinet Ministries The Korean People's Army (KPA; Korean: 조선인민군; MR: Chosŏn inmin'gun) encompasses the combined military forces of North Korea and the armed wing of the Workers' Party of Korea (WPK). The KPA consists of five branches: the Ground Force, the Naval Force, the Air Force, the Strategic Force, and the Special Operations Forces. It is commanded by the WPK Central Military Commission, which is chaired by the WPK general secretary, and the president of the State Affairs;... > **[Republic of Korea Armed Forces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_South_Korea)** > > The Republic of Korea Armed Forces (Korean: 대한민국 국군; Hanja: 大韓民國國軍; RR: Daehanminguk Gukgun; lit. 'Republic of Korea National Military'), also known as the ROK Armed Forces, are the armed forces of South Korea. The ROK Armed Forces is one of the largest and most powerful standing armed forces in the world with a reported personnel strength of 3,600,000 in 2022 (450,000 active and 3,100,000 reserve). The Republic of Korea Armed Forces traces its roots back to the establishment of the Korean Repub... [http://www.g2mil.com/korea.htm](http://www.g2mil.com/korea.htm) And for some lighthearted fun [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jCxdku8sx-A/hqdefault.jpg "North Korea vs South Korea from 'PLANET B-BOY'") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCxdku8sx-A) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/40 "2006-07-05T23:03:23Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] You are obviously joking, because such an assertion is promptly ridiculous since you’ve completely ignored the prowess of the South Korean military, and their ability even without US help, to completely destroy the North Korean military. [/QUOTE] See post #34. Defeat NK they can. Save their own country they can’t. **Both sides lose.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206.md?page=3)