# Game on - North Korea **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 4, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206 "2006-07-04T21:39:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/41 "2006-07-05T23:04:55Z")
A hostile foreign country has developed nuclear weapons? That’s completely unacceptable. We need to invade that country just like we invaded the Soviet Union back in 1949 and China back in 1964. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/42 "2006-07-05T23:31:27Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] See post #34. Defeat NK they can. Save their own country they can’t. **Both sides lose.** [/QUOTE] Ridiculous! Even if the South Koreans suffered casualties and bombings on Seoul, they’d still have command of the _air and sea_, not to mention superior firepower on the ground and the financial ability (not to mention a bigger population) to carry the war _into_ North Korea. Any damage South Korea experiences it can _always recover from_, North Korea in comparison would _collapse_. > [@](#): > > Really, how could we “take out” NK? Nuking Pyongyang is unacceptable for a dozen obvious reasons, and we can’t spare the ground troops for an invasion – too many of our forces are tied down in Iraq and Afthanistan. (A fact of which Kim Jong Il and Ahmedinejad are both, doubtless, very strongly aware.) Who says the US military would be doing the majority of the fighting? When you’ve got a premier class South Korean military that can do it itself? That military isn’t a Korean ARVN anymore, it can handle itself 🙂 Besides, the absurd assumption that the US military will attack the North Koreans first is that, absurd. Both sides enjoy the status quo, and Kims sabre rattling is the usual same old same old. He won’t risk a war when he’s sitting comfortably exploiting his people. > [@](#): > > Even if we could spare the troops, the South Koreans wouldn’t want a war, because Kim is prepared to flatten Seoul with conventional long-range artillery in the first hour of the war. Both sides lose. Oh no, that big bad dictator who would be most likely to attack SK **first** with outdated and spare parts-lacking equipment is threatening to flatten Seoul, we must enter peace negotiations. :eek: The US would only enter a new Korean war in conjunction with the South Koreans, like it did in the last war. The only reason as to why the North Korean Government hasn’t been able to start a war yet is because like I said before, they’re happy with the US as an ‘imperial enemy’ and **existing** as a state. ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/43 "2006-07-06T00:21:26Z")
You know, if we hadn’t spent all that time, money, and manpower in Iraq, we’d probably be in a much better position, diplomatically and militarily, to deal with a nation which was actually developing nuclear weapons and long-range missiles. It’s a damned shame. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/44 "2006-07-06T00:31:09Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] Besides, the absurd assumption that the US military will attack the North Koreans first is that, absurd. Both sides enjoy the status quo, and Kims sabre rattling is the usual same old same old. He won’t risk a war when he’s sitting comfortably exploiting his people. [/QUOTE] So, you counsel a U.S. policy of continued inaction? Finally we agree on something! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/45 "2006-07-06T00:38:48Z")
I think if we ignore, them they’ll eventually go away. They certainly have no reason to launch a rocket to the U.S., with or without a payload. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/46 "2006-07-06T01:58:56Z")
[QUOTE=nameless] You know, if we hadn’t spent all that time, money, and manpower in Iraq, we’d probably be in a much better position, diplomatically and militarily, to deal with a nation which was actually developing nuclear weapons and long-range missiles. It’s a damned shame. [/QUOTE] We don’t need to do anything, don’t worry, anything NK trys to rattle can be flanked by the SK military and the fact that if it attempted a nuclear attack, the US has around 12,000 missiles at it’s disposal. Although that’s a highly simplistic view of things, I still have faith NK won’t do anything except sabre rattling for the foreseeable future. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/47 "2006-07-06T12:32:05Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] Oh no, that big bad dictator who would be most likely to attack SK **first** with outdated and spare parts-lacking equipment is threatening to flatten Seoul, we must enter peace negotiations. :eek: [/QUOTE] Just a slight hijack. As outdated and unreliable as the NK military is as a whole, I have no doubt that they could flatten Seoul quite easily. Seoul is pretty close to the NK border and well within shelling range. Seeing as how important attacking Seoul would be in any invasion plans, I have no doubt that the guns already aimed at Seoul are kept pretty well maintained. It doesn’t change the fact that NK would lose in a war with SK and the US–although I doubt the victory would be an easy one–but if the balloon goes up on the peninsula, Seoul is going to be hurting badly. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/48 "2006-07-06T13:36:20Z")
I suggest we invade Borneo. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/49 "2006-07-06T13:48:02Z")
Ummm…guys? Just because they can _launch_ them, _doesn’t_ mean they can _aim_ them. And I’ve seen _no evidence whatsoever_ that they _can_ aim them. :dubious: A Guided Missile is a deadly threat. An Unguided missile…no. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/50 "2006-07-06T13:48:38Z")
I thought someone in Official Washington suggested last week that we try to shoot down the Korean missiles, to prove to them how hopeless their missile program is. I’m disappointed we didn’t do that, but several posts in this thread have strongly suggested it just ain’t very likely. Probably true. Still, it would have been cool to see the looks on the N. Koreans’ faces as they proudly watched seven missiles streak skyward, only to explode moments later. Talk about Fourth of July fireworks! I know, it’s a jingoistic fantasy, but it sure would have been fun to see. I noticed AP today carried a story saying that N. Korea is now saying, “Leave us alone or we’ll take even stronger measures.” Hell, I thought we had been leaving them alone. I think we ought to leave them completely alone. Empty-harbor alone. Vacant-airstrip alone. Hermetically-sealed border alone. Yep, as alone as alone can be. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/51 "2006-07-06T14:17:04Z")
Bosda: > [@](#): > > A Guided Missile is a deadly threat. An Unguided missile…no. The old “If you don’t like the way I drive, stay off the sidewalk” theory? I think that getting hit for being in a random “wrong place, wrong time” hurts just as much as being hit by being intentionally aimed for. Sure, a badly-aimed missile could land somewhere unpopulated, but that’s a heck of a chance to take. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/52 "2006-07-06T14:25:31Z")
[QUOTE=cmkeller] Bosda: The old “If you don’t like the way I drive, stay off the sidewalk” theory? I think that getting hit for being in a random “wrong place, wrong time” hurts just as much as being hit by being intentionally aimed for. Sure, a badly-aimed missile could land somewhere unpopulated, but that’s a heck of a chance to take. [/QUOTE] I see no evidence that they could hit Japan. I see no evidence that they could hit Taiwan. I see no evidence that they could hit Hawaii. I see no evidence that they could hit Alaska. I see no evidence that they could hit the US Mainland. I see no evidence that they have _any control whatsoever_, over their missiles. Might as well be bottle rockets. And, BTW…they have yet to test **any form** of nuclear weapon, despite their claims. They could put a Bomb on a raft out in the ocean to test it, but haven’t. So…I have my _doubts_ that they have one. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/53 "2006-07-06T14:36:32Z")
[QUOTE=jeffrice] I thought someone in Official Washington suggested last week that we try to shoot down the Korean missiles, to prove to them how hopeless their missile program is. [/QUOTE] All it would have proved, most likely, is how hopless the anti missle defence concept is. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/54 "2006-07-06T14:44:15Z")
So they aren’t even a “gathering” threat? If we don’t want to call them an _iminent_ threat, maybe we can call them an _itinerant_ threat. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/55 "2006-07-06T15:07:11Z")
I still harken back to that speech where our Prez defines the axis of evil as Afghanostan, Iraq, Iran and n. Korea. Then we attack Afghanistan. Then we attack Iraq. Now we are shocked to see Iran and N.Korea are trying to arm themselves . What would you think. The Prez put them on notice for attack. They want nukes. Wonder why. If I were running either country I would be after the biggest deterrent possible in the shortest possible time. I would have no trouble convincing my populous that the bad guys are coming. We also are furiously working on a new generation of nukes. Everyone knows it. The Prez has made many speeches providing propaganda for them. It would be easy to rally the people. No matter what President Cheney and Bush come up with his base will follow with Pavlovian drool. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/56 "2006-07-06T15:24:46Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] I see no evidence that they could hit Japan. [/quote] Except of course for that missile they launched from North Korea and it traveled over Japan. North Korea is selling weapons to other countries and, supposedly, those weapons (missiles) are fairly efficient. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/57 "2006-07-06T15:32:40Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Except of course for that missile they launched from North Korea and it traveled over Japan. [/QUOTE] Traveling over an island is **not** the same as hitting it. I could fire a rifle _over_ a house from 1/2 mile away. That doesn’t mean I could hit it, much less shoot out a window. > [@](#): > > North Korea is selling weapons to other countries and, supposedly, those weapons (missiles) are fairly efficient. Cite? I mean, about the accuracy thing. I accept the selling thing. But, even if true, accurate short-range anti-aircraft/anti-tank weapons have _ **nothing to do** _ with ballistic missiles. Apples & oranges. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/58 "2006-07-06T15:38:49Z")
[Read this article.](http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/HF24Dg02.html) I didn’t say accurate. I said efficient. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/59 "2006-07-06T15:48:39Z")
I think there’s precisely jack and squat the US can do about it. The odd chance they have a nuke and can lob it into Seoul makes the possibility of a US-led military strike about nil. Russia and China will nix any potent sanctions, and NK is so isolated from everyone else what we do matters little anyway. The worst that can happen to NK is this attempt to secure a better handout package than the one they’re already getting will fail. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206/60 "2006-07-06T15:51:41Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] Traveling over an island is **not** the same as hitting it. [/QUOTE] It is when a nuclear weapon is attached. If there is one group of people who understand the nature of horseshoes and hand grenades, its the Japanese. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-on-north-korea/363206.md?page=4)