# \[GAME\]The Resistance - Mafia-Like Game **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 25, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450 "2014-10-25T12:50:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/221 "2014-11-13T21:16:58Z")
Ok after rereading again and being confused again this is my first team inclination. I would prefer to put myself on the team but for some reason a bunch of folks find me suspicious.šŸ˜• How does this sound to the rest of you? Johnny Bravo, Terminus, Mr Shine, septimus Iā€™m sorry Hooker but I hate your demands to be on every team it makes me not trust you, and please donā€™t say ā€œa spy would never do thatā€. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/222 "2014-11-13T22:58:41Z")
I would vote yes for that team, although at this point I honestlly thing anybody in the game except me has a 4/9 chance of being a spy. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/223 "2014-11-13T23:11:52Z")
I would approve that team, sinjin. And I would prefer to approve sinjinā€™s team, rather than be forced to approve whatever Hooker suggests. There is no way we can let this get to storyteller and let him nominate both himself and Mahaloth. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/224 "2014-11-13T23:43:46Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > The results are not inconsistent with the assumption of 2 spies on the first mission. Iā€™d like to see the next team as: > > Terminus Est > septimus > Johnny Bravo > Me or Stanislaus > > If this team is not proposed, Iā€™d vote against it and propose it myself if given the opportunity. I would approve this team if it includes stanislaus. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/225 "2014-11-14T00:31:41Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Ok after rereading again and being confused again this is my first team inclination. I would prefer to put myself on the team but for some reason a bunch of folks find me suspicious.šŸ˜• How does this sound to the rest of you? > > Johnny Bravo, Terminus, Mr Shine, septimus > > Iā€™m sorry Hooker but I hate your demands to be on every team it makes me not trust you, and please donā€™t say ā€œa spy would never do thatā€. I donā€™t demand to be on every team, but being on a team makes one less person I have to worry about. Now that I have some information to work with, Iā€™m more comfortable with others. Iā€™ve offered to put forward a team either me or Stanislaus, who are interchangeable in the scenarios septimus outlined, and Iā€™ve indicated that (until the most recent vote) I liked Terminusā€™s team and would like to see it proposed again. Iā€™ve reconsidered since then. I think weā€™d learn a lot if this team fails. On a success, weā€™d have a success, so thatā€™s good too. This team is win/win for the Resistance. Iā€™d rather see Stanislaus or myself in Mr Shineā€™s position, but I could (reluctantly) bite the bullet on this team. (I recognize that several of you would vote down any team with me on it, so Iā€™d put forward Stanislaus.) ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/226 "2014-11-14T08:03:22Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Ok after rereading again and being confused again this is my first team inclination. I would prefer to put myself on the team but for some reason a bunch of folks find me suspicious.šŸ˜• How does this sound to the rest of you? > > Johnny Bravo, Terminus, Mr Shine, septimus > > Iā€™m sorry Hooker but I hate your demands to be on every team it makes me not trust you, and please donā€™t say ā€œa spy would never do thatā€. I can live with this team. That **Hooker** also finds it acceptable makes my nose itch, but that may just be my paranoia talking. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/227 "2014-11-14T08:55:16Z")
Iā€™m away from home until Tuesday or so, and, because I find my wifeā€™s smartphone hard to use, will probably be checking in only once a day from Internet cafes. Iā€™ve become less confident here; Iā€™ll go through my assumptions and ā€œthink aloudā€, hoping for help. (1) There are at least two Spies, but probably not 3, in Group A; Johnny is Town. Iā€™m not going to change my mind about this, and, anyway our chances are very bleak if it isnā€™t true. (2) Is Mr Shine Townie? Iā€™d been assuming this, mainly on the basis that Spy wouldnā€™t have proposed teams with 1, let alone 2, from Group A, but Iā€™m having slight misgivings. Could this play by Mr Shine be deep WIFOM? Frankly HookerChemical has given me Townie vibes throughout. I still think Mr Shine is Townie, but Iā€™d be happy to consider a team with Hooker instead. 1. Is Terminus Est really Town? Most players seem to assume this, but on what basis? 2. Is there really a Spy in Group B? I made this assumption on the basis of the voting for Mission 2.1 but, again, the Spies in Group A might have been gambling? > [@HookerChemical](#): > > The results are not inconsistent with the assumption of 2 spies on the first mission. Iā€™d like to see the next team as: > > Terminus Est > septimus > Johnny Bravo > Me or Stanislaus > > If this team is not proposed, Iā€™d vote against it and propose it myself if given the opportunity. Again, whatā€™s the evidence Terminus is Town? > [@Mahaloth](#): > > I would approve this team if it includes stanislaus. Yep. And here is my top Spy suspect endorsing a team with Terminus and Stanislaus. Iā€™ll guess one of those two is a Spy. Whatā€™s started my misgivings is sinjinā€™s proposal: Johnny Bravo, Terminus, Mr Shine, septimus. Terminus and sinjin cannot both be Spies (we know that from Terminusā€™ proposal), and if sinjin is a Spy, he wouldnā€™t possibly propose a clean team, right? So, one of the following must be true - Terminus is clean, but sinjin and Mr Shine are both Spies - Group B was completely clean. Groups C has two Spies and Spies did clever wifom on the voting. - Terminus is a Spy. The 3rd possibility may be likeliest, no? Therefore, I think Iā€™d like sinjinā€™s proposal better with sinjin or Hooker replacing Terminus. (It would probably have to be sinjin, with all the suspicion against Hooker.) Time is running out; what do others think? **sinjin** , Iā€™ll vote your team if you replace Terminus with yourself. Otherwise Iā€™m afraid Iā€™ll Reject and hope to leave it up to Hooker. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/228 "2014-11-14T08:56:47Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Ok after rereading again and being confused again this is my first team inclination. I would prefer to put myself on the team but for some reason a bunch of folks find me suspicious.šŸ˜• How does this sound to the rest of you? > > Johnny Bravo, Terminus, Mr Shine, septimus > > Iā€™m sorry Hooker but I hate your demands to be on every team it makes me not trust you, and please donā€™t say ā€œa spy would never do thatā€. Iā€™m suspicious of septimus and Mr Shine and I voted to reject a team with them on last round. Howeverā€¦ > [@HookerChemical](#): > > The results are not inconsistent with the assumption of 2 spies on the first mission. Iā€™d like to see the next team as: > > Terminus Est > septimus > Johnny Bravo > Me or Stanislaus > > If this team is not proposed, Iā€™d vote against it and propose it myself if given the opportunity. Much as I want to be on a team, I think swapping me in for Mr Shine just increases the odds that thereā€™s ONE Spy on the team. Iā€™d rather see septimusā€™ carefully laid out 36% strategy put to the test than have a one spy team. So Iā€™ll accept sinjinā€™s original team in the hope of trapping Spies. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/229 "2014-11-14T10:24:54Z")
I was wondering when the **septimus** show would start up again. > [@septimus](#): > > (1) There are at least two Spies, but probably not 3, in Group A; Johnny is Town. Iā€™m not going to change my mind about this, and, anyway our chances are very bleak if it isnā€™t true. Your entire chain of logic is built around this supposition, which appears to come from the idea that weā€™re hosed if it isnā€™t true. You dazzle us with your verbiage but, quite frankly, itā€™s a whole lot of wishful thinking. This could be your spy strategy, to build up tenuous hypotheses to distract us from finding the other spies. Since Iā€™ll vote to accept sinjinā€™s proposed team, I donā€™t actually think youā€™re a spy but rather a clueless rebel (maybe I should say overly-clued in). > [@](#): > > (2) Is Mr Shine Townie? Iā€™d been assuming this, mainly on the basis that Spy wouldnā€™t have proposed teams with 1, let alone 2, from Group A, but Iā€™m having slight misgivings. Could this play by Mr Shine be deep WIFOM? Frankly HookerChemical has given me Townie vibes throughout. I still think Mr Shine is Townie, but Iā€™d be happy to consider a team with Hooker instead. I donā€™t know what the heck WIFOM is, but from context Iā€™m guessing it has something to do with turtles all the way down. Seriously, I donā€™t play Mafia, neither in real life nor in forums. Could we cut out the Mafia-speak, please? There arenā€™t any townies in this game; weā€™re rebels or spies. > [@](#): > > 1. Is Terminus Est really Town? Most players seem to assume this, but on what basis? > > 2. Is there really a Spy in Group B? I made this assumption on the basis of the voting for Mission 2.1 but, again, the Spies in Group A might have been gambling? > > Again, whatā€™s the evidence Terminus is Town? > > And here is my top Spy suspect endorsing a team with Terminus and Stanislaus. Iā€™ll guess one of those two is a Spy. > > Whatā€™s started my misgivings is sinjinā€™s proposal: Johnny Bravo, Terminus, Mr Shine, septimus. Terminus and sinjin cannot both be Spies (we know that from Terminusā€™ proposal), and if sinjin is a Spy, he wouldnā€™t possibly propose a clean team, right? More wishful thinking on your part. Why canā€™t a spy propose a clean team? He could be using it to build trust, to be included in a future mission. Remember that mission four requires at least **two** fail votes to fail. Or maybe heā€™s banking on the team being rejected, further muddying the waters and knowing one of his buddies is going to come up with a team that _must_ be accepted. > [@](#): > > So, one of the following must be true > > - Terminus is clean, but sinjin and Mr Shine are both Spies > - Group B was completely clean. Groups C has two Spies and Spies did clever wifom on the voting. > - Terminus is a Spy. > > The 3rd possibility may be likeliest, no? How is it that Group A must have two spies, but the likelihood of Group C having two spies is low? I actually canā€™t even recall whoā€™s supposed to be in Group C. It probably doesnā€™t have two spies, but Iā€™m using it to make a point that your conclusion depends on questionable assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/230 "2014-11-14T13:56:43Z")
sinjin has nominated the following team for mission 2.3: Johnny Bravo Terminus Est Mr Shine septimus Please PM your accept or reject votes by 2:00 pm central time Sunday, November 16. I will start the next phase anytime after noon central time tomorrow (Nov. 15) if I have received all the votes. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/231 "2014-11-14T18:20:18Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > (1) There are at least two Spies, but probably not 3, in Group A; Johnny is Town. Iā€™m not going to change my mind about this, and, anyway our chances are very bleak if it isnā€™t true. Iā€™m less sure of it, but Iā€™m in complete agreement that itā€™s the only path that gives us a structure we can test, thus we should pursue it. For what itā€™s worth, Iā€™m about 75% confident itā€™s the case. > [@septimus](#): > > (2) Is Mr Shine Townie? Iā€™d been assuming this, mainly on the basis that Spy wouldnā€™t have proposed teams with 1, let alone 2, from Group A, but Iā€™m having slight misgivings. Could this play by Mr Shine be deep WIFOM? Frankly HookerChemical has given me Townie vibes throughout. I still think Mr Shine is Townie, but Iā€™d be happy to consider a team with Hooker instead. Mr Shine didnā€™t nominate two from Group A. Mr Shine sent: Mr Shine Terminus Est storyteller0910 septimus Of these, only storyteller0910 was Group A. Iā€™m not sure sending 1 from Group A is Resistance (i.e. an indication that you think that one person was not the bad apple in Group A) or Spy (Iā€™m not going to outline the thought process). > [@septimus](#): > > 1. Is Terminus Est really Town? Most players seem to assume this, but on what basis? My assessment is based primarily on Terminusā€™s vote against Terminusā€™s team. It doesnā€™t make much sense to me if Terminus is a spy and given that it looked like the team would pass. But I hardly have concrete evidence. > [@septimus](#): > > 1. Is there really a Spy in Group B? I made this assumption on the basis of the voting for Mission 2.1 but, again, the Spies in Group A might have been gambling? I think there is one based on the voting from Mr Shineā€™s team, but Iā€™m making some assumptions about the voting habits of spies. And here is my top Spy suspect endorsing a team with Terminus and Stanislaus. Iā€™ll guess one of those two is a Spy. > [@septimus](#): > > Whatā€™s started my misgivings is sinjinā€™s proposal: Johnny Bravo, Terminus, Mr Shine, septimus. Terminus and sinjin cannot both be Spies (we know that from Terminusā€™ proposal), and if sinjin is a Spy, he wouldnā€™t possibly propose a clean team, right? So, one of the following must be true > > - Terminus is clean, but sinjin and Mr Shine are both Spies > - Group B was completely clean. Groups C has two Spies and Spies did clever wifom on the voting. > - Terminus is a Spy. > > The 3rd possibility may be likeliest, no? I think youā€™re overlooking the chance of both sinjin and Mr Shine being spies. In that scenario, Termā€™s team had one spy in sinjin, while receiving a vote from the unknown Group A spy and sinjin and two spies voting against (Mr Shine and Mahaloth). The next team was proposed by Mr Shine and had Mr Shine as the spy. In that case, it received yes votes from spies Mr Shine, sinjin, and Mahaloth with an unknown vote from the unknown A spy. The team before us contains Mr Shine, who is in this scenario a spy. Thus, Iā€™m not enthusiastic about voting for the team, but with a fail, I would be very confident that both Mr Shine and sinjin were spies. Iā€™m on the fence about the team. I donā€™t like it, but weā€™d learn a lot on a fail. Iā€™m not sure that my proposing the next team would pass, and I think that letting Story make the next team gives us literally a coin flip, so Iā€™m leaning toward approving unless I am confident I could get the team through. > [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > I donā€™t know what the heck WIFOM is, but from context Iā€™m guessing it has something to do with turtles all the way down. Seriously, I donā€™t play Mafia, neither in real life nor in forums. Could we cut out the Mafia-speak, please? There arenā€™t any townies in this game; weā€™re rebels or spies. I had to look it up. Itā€™s ā€œWine in front of me,ā€ from Princess Bride. Surely a spy would not vote for a team with two spies, so anybody that does cannot be a spy. But surely the spies would vote for a team with two spies, so we clearly cannot eliminate those that voted for a team with two spies. But knowing that they know thisā€¦ I gather it plays an import part in Mafia, but I donā€™t think it holds up as well in Resistance where weā€™re never 100% sure where the poison is. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/232 "2014-11-15T04:30:53Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > I had to look it up. Itā€™s ā€œWine in front of me,ā€ from Princess Bride. Surely a spy would not vote for a team with two spies, so anybody that does cannot be a spy. But surely the spies would vote for a team with two spies, so we clearly cannot eliminate those that voted for a team with two spies. But knowing that they know thisā€¦ Aha, just like I thought ā€“ turtles. I find it curious that **septimus** thinks of this in some instances but doesnā€™t consider it in others. He seems to choose whenever itā€™s convenient to his argument. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/233 "2014-11-15T04:42:53Z")
I am voting to accept my team. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/234 "2014-11-15T14:00:11Z")
> [@](#): > > S o, one of the following must be true > > - Terminus is clean, but sinjin and Mr Shine are both Spies > - Group B was completely clean. Groups C has two Spies and Spies did clever wifom on the voting. > - Terminus is a Spy. > . This is my 1st smartphone use. It was very hard just to snip above and i erased hooker quote i wanted. Iā€™ve reviewed and reconvinced that Terminus is town. So either sinjinā€™s proposal or hookerā€™s is clean. I Accept halfheartedly. Upon failure weā€™ll ā€œknowā€ sinjin & shine are the Spies. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/235 "2014-11-15T16:37:37Z")
I accept this group, but wonder why the heck we need until tomorrow to finalize the vote? I honestly would end the voting period tonight and screw anyone who doesnā€™t get in on time. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/236 "2014-11-15T16:47:31Z")
The vote canā€™t be closed down earlier than the stated deadline just because itā€™s reached a point where it will definitely pass or fail as that would give an imbalance of information. I personally think 24 hours is enough time, but I can see there may be players that canā€™t guarantee internet access every day. I think people should actually vote accept rather than waiting for the deadline to do it for them though. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/237 "2014-11-16T15:34:58Z")
The lack of discussion during this phase seems like a good reason to shorten this part down to 24 hours. Can we start that next mission? ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/238 "2014-11-16T21:40:41Z")
Here are the votes for mission 2.3 in random order: Mr Shine - accept Mahaloth - accept Storyteller - accept HookerChemical - accept Johnny Bravo - accept Terminus Est - accept TexCat - accept sinjin - accept Stanislaus - accept septimus - accept So, the mission has been accepted. The team of Johnny Bravo, Terminus Est, Mr Shine, and septimus will go on the mission. Resistance members on the team, you can message me your choice to have the mission succeed if you like, but it is not necessary. Spies, you do need to message me by 5:00 pm central time tomorrow (Monday, Nov. 17) with whether you want the mission to succeed or fail. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/239 "2014-11-17T23:14:42Z")
2nd attempted mission is over. Mission votes in random order: fail succeed succeed succeed The mission fails. The team was Johnny Bravo, Terminus Est, Mr Shine, and septimus. Current score: Resistance: 0 Spies: 2 HookerChemical you need to nominate a team of 4 players for mission 3. Please send me your nomination by 5:00 pm central time tomorrow (November 17). ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450/240 "2014-11-17T23:21:44Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > I think weā€™d learn a lot if this team fails. OK. What did we learn, in your opinion? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-the-resistance-mafia-like-game/702450.md?page=13)