# Gamergate
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 5, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596 "2014-09-05T17:43:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 20
### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/381 "2014-09-18T15:55:12Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> No. They agreed to include her _as a character in a game_, because that was one of their _agreed-upon stretch goals_. This is a legal obligation on their part, mind you. Just for reference, 4chan [contacted TFYC beforehand](http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/815365-quinnspiracy). Notice how explicitly stated in their goals is to “show that we’re not all women-haters”? They knew full well that FYC was a feminist group. That their goal was to _help women_.
Yes, but it’s also deliberately created to troll and ridicule feminists. By being a good example of feminist character. It’s multilayered trollery, which is the best kind of course, but saying “look, look, they’re saying they’re feminists and they have a good character to show for it” is borderline disingenuous. Hell, even the groupthink decision to financially support FYC was, at heart, meant as a “fuck you” to Zoe Quinn in particular, and feminists/SJWs surrounding her in general.
So they’re really playing on both fields - being routine misogynists, but also supporting feminist causes to prop up as proof that they’re all progressive and shit. But the very feminist causes they pick and the ways they’re supporting them is, fundamentally, about slamming women. And, in turn, VJ is now, ultimately, about “neener neener”.
It’s also pretty amusing (to me anyway) that, like, 30 minutes after Vivian James emerged as a consensus concept with an ideographic identity (red hair, purple/green stripes, 4-leaf clover hairpin, grungy look and apathetic/bored attitude etc.), there was already porn and sexually objectified depictions of her being published on /v/ and some were even _sent to FYC_ as part of the “this is our character” package. Because women are just gamers like anyone else and feminism and shit, one assumes :). It’s all in good fun. But tits or GTFO. No, not really, LOL. But seriously, show us yer tits.
I’m as much a fan of post-modernist irony as anyone, but at some point one needs to cut the shit and pick a side to stand on.
---
### Author:  [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/382 "2014-09-18T15:58:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> Not going to watch a video on this stupid shit, but why would you expect this Sarkeesian person to get involved in this ThundefOOt’s business? Why should she care if or how he was banned? Is this guy an employee of hers?
Get on ur bike and shuffle along then.
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/383 "2014-09-18T16:03:31Z")
> [@Ibanez](#):
>
> Get on ur bike and shuffle along then.
No
---
### Author:  [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/384 "2014-09-18T16:07:11Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> No. They agreed to include her _as a character in a game_, because that was one of their _agreed-upon stretch goals_. This is a legal obligation on their part, mind you. Just for reference, 4chan [contacted TFYC beforehand](http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/815365-quinnspiracy). Notice how explicitly stated in their goals is to “show that we’re not all women-haters”?
Paper facade over their slut-shaming and harassment tactics. Color me singularly unimpressed with their motives.
> [@](#):
>
> They knew full well that FYC was a feminist group. That their goal was to _help women_. And they wanted in on that, because they felt that TFYC was wronged, and that they were sick of being called misogynists. What’s more, Vivian James is a quintessentially female character. She’s just one of us gamers. There’s nothing offensive, sexist, or wrong about her. She’s basically what you’d end up with if you told /v/ “okay, we need a female character who basically represents us”, because _that is literally how she came to exist_.
They sided with FYC because FYC was making the unsupported claim that Zoe Quinn caused their shitty server to crash. It was nothing more than a cynical move.
> [@](#):
>
> Jesus Tittyfucking Christ you have _no clue what you are talking about_. 4chan has no usernames. It has no profiles. You don’t have a 4chan account. When you go to post there the only identifier is your IP, and that’s all they have to ban you with. What’s more, they have a quite radical policy on free speech - if it’s not illegal, and if it’s not a raid, it’s usually fine. They have a very different board culture to any forum that actually has users. There is no “throwing those apples away” because the only people who can ever tell who posted what are the moderators. Yeah, this inherently leads to assholes. But you know what? To claim that everyone there is an asshole, or a misogynist, or a rape apologist just because they aren’t actively censoring those who are is just stupid.
The vast majority is assholes and there is almost no effort to reign them in. They are the living embodiment of the Internet Fuckwad Theory.
When Quinn posted excerpts of the 4chat IRC chat 4chan reasoned by dumping thousands of pages of transcripts hoping no one would actually look closely. More than a [few people did](http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/09/08/zoe-quinns-screenshots-of-4chans-dirty-tricks-were-just-the-appetizer-heres-the-first-course-of-the-dinner-directly-from-the-irc-log/) and found people hoping to drive Zoe to suicide or raping her, etc. Its not just a ‘few assholes’, it’s made of assholes. You can even read the comments where the guy who provided the logs shows up to defend the group and falls completely flat.
That they toss a few bucks to a group they wouldn’t have given 2 shits about had someone on reddit not blamed Zoe for crashing their server does not impress me one bit.
---
### Author:  [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/385 "2014-09-18T16:10:17Z")
> [@Kobal2](#):
>
> Yes, but it’s also deliberately created to troll and ridicule feminists. By being a good example of feminist character. It’s multilayered trollery, which is the best kind of course, but saying “look, look, they’re saying they’re feminists and they have a good character to show for it” is borderline disingenuous. Hell, even the groupthink decision to financially support FYC was, at heart, meant as a “fuck you” to Zoe Quinn in particular, and feminists/SJWs surrounding her in general.
>
> So they’re really playing on both fields - being routine misogynists, but also supporting feminist causes to prop up as proof that they’re all progressive and shit. But the very feminist causes they pick and the ways they’re supporting them is, fundamentally, about slamming women. And, in turn, VJ is now, ultimately, about “neener neener”.
>
> It’s also pretty amusing (to me anyway) that, like, 30 minutes after Vivian James emerged as a consensus concept with an ideographic identity (red hair, purple/green stripes, 4-leaf clover hairpin, grungy look and apathetic/bored attitude etc.), there was already porn and sexually objectified depictions of her being published on /v/ and some were even _sent to FYC_ as part of the “this is our character” package. Because women are just gamers like anyone else and feminism and shit, one assumes :). It’s all in good fun. But tits or GTFO. No, not really, LOL. But seriously, show us yer tits.
> I’m as much a fan of post-modernist irony as anyone, but at some point one needs to cut the shit and pick a side to stand on.
The first panel of the [latest Critical Miss](http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comicsandcosplay/comics/critical-miss/12260-Manic-Pixel-Dream-Girls) hits the target on VJ probably more than they intended,.
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/386 "2014-09-18T16:17:30Z")
> [@Ibanez](#):
>
> In other news [ThundefOOt](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a4vaZy0a18) a critic of Anita Sarkeesian had his twitter account suspended due to a flood of complaints. Never said anything threatening, violent . Just very critical of Sarkeesian. I would expect any time now Ms Sarkeesian to put out a statement on twitter condemning this type of behaviour right just because he’s a critic ?
Why was his account banned? Was it banned under Twitter’s “too many people complained” policy? Which specific policy led to its banning?
Sarkeesian vlogs about women in video games. Is ThundefOOt a woman? Is ThundefOOt a videogame character? If not, why would Sarkeesian vlog about him? She most certainly doesn’t vlog about hashtag protected speech.
---
### Author:  [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/387 "2014-09-18T17:06:37Z")
You people are all fucking insane. But please keep it up, ’ cause this middle school drama is comedy gold.
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### Author:  [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/388 "2014-09-18T17:22:30Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> Many of them worked pseudonymously. This is not uncommon in the indie scene. And if you’re trying to stay pseudonymous, you usually don’t want people to figure out who you are. Let alone where you live. Even those who go by their real name tend to keep that stuff very secretive. It’s especially problematic when the context is someone popular talking about you being a bad person, and a lot of their followers being mad at you.
OK, it seems kind of contradictory to me that a business that wants to enlist women and minorities and develop their ideas would be so tight-lipped about their own identities. Do they solely conduct their business anonymously? No wonder they have a shaky reputation.
How exactly did she doxx them? The article implies that somebody named Maya actually provided the info online, and ZQ linked to it. Was it some sort of spreadsheet organized by name, address and contact info? If FYC’s personnel are so secretive, they wouldn’t have put their personal info online in the first place. FYC sounds like an organization of Chicken Littles.
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/389 "2014-09-18T17:37:04Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#):
>
> You people are all fucking insane. But please keep it up, ’ cause this middle school drama is comedy gold.
You seriously rock; thanks for your witty insight!
---
### Author:  [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/390 "2014-09-18T17:49:48Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> You seriously rock; thanks for your witty insight!
No witty remark intended. I’m honestly baffled that grown ass men are spending any time at all on this stupid drama. But perhaps you are on to something. Hopefully President Obama will stop dwelling on this ISIS trivia and give gamergate the presidential attention it deserves.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/391 "2014-09-18T17:56:00Z")
You’re surprised that people on the internet are talking about something happening on the internet?
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### Author:  [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/392 "2014-09-18T18:01:15Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#):
>
> No witty remark intended. I’m honestly baffled that grown ass men are spending any time at all on this stupid drama.
[Yup, just some petty ass drama!](http://kotaku.com/bomb-threat-targeted-anita-sarkeesian-gaming-awards-la-1636032301)
---
### Author:  [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/393 "2014-09-18T18:04:30Z")
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> You’re surprised that people on the internet are talking about something happening on the internet?
No, just bemused. But I’ll stop now lest I gaze too long into the abyss.
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### Author:  [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/394 "2014-09-18T18:31:12Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#):
>
> No witty remark intended. I’m honestly baffled that grown ass men are spending any time at all on this stupid drama. But perhaps you are on to something. Hopefully President Obama will stop dwelling on this ISIS trivia and give gamergate the presidential attention it deserves.
This isn’t “stupid drama.” This is an organized campaign to terrorize and harass two women for daring to have both ovaries and an opinion.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/395 "2014-09-18T18:47:06Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#):
>
> No witty remark intended. I’m honestly baffled that grown ass men are spending any time at all on this stupid drama. But perhaps you are on to something. Hopefully President Obama will stop dwelling on this ISIS trivia and give gamergate the presidential attention it deserves.
Listen, you ignorant twit, you’re talking about it yourself, only you’re doing so at a much stupider level than anyone else in the thread–and I’m including blindboy in that assessment. The idea that something is either too dumb to talk about or is equivalent to ISIS is one of the more offensively moronic things I’ve read on the subject, and I’m including 4chan in that assessment.
---
### Author:  [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/396 "2014-09-18T18:51:06Z")
So Larry, you just came in to tell us NERDS how cool and detached you are?
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/397 "2014-09-18T19:22:48Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#):
>
> So Larry, you just came in to tell us NERDS how cool and detached you are?
Stop having threads about things I don’t care about!
---
### Author:  [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/398 "2014-09-18T20:01:02Z")
> [@even\_sven](#):
>
> Then what, pray tell, is the discussion? […] The story here is that someone is being illegally harassed. The rest of the story seems to be a bunch of people claiming she deserves it.
Rewinding a bit, and refocusing on the original topic of discussion, there’s actually more depth to it than this.
> **[GamerGate: A Closer Look At The Controversy Sweeping Video Games](https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/09/04/gamergate-a-closer-look-at-the-controversy-sweeping-video-games/)**
>
> Examining #GamerGate and the latest controversy sweeping the video game industry.
I’d consider this take on events to be relatively neutral, given how this has all evolved, but even it doesn’t discuss all the pieces (as the author specifically states). The harassment angle is merely one aspect of an overall shit-storm of events, but it seems particular groups are latching onto various elements of the greater discussion, and using them to leverage their point(s) in the discussion.
---
### Author:  [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/399 "2014-09-18T20:11:14Z")
I don’t know how much of this graphic-speak is just nonsense (Figure 1 is pretty much nonsense as proof of anything) but if true it seems that maybe [4chan is sick of /v/](http://imgur.com/gallery/G0eIGQx).
Like I said, despite its laughably twisted victim complex I’d take everything they say with a grain of salt the size of a small Ocean Liner.
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/400 "2014-09-18T20:21:50Z")
> [@Krouget](#):
>
> Rewinding a bit, and refocusing on the original topic of discussion, there’s actually more depth to it than this.
>
> [GamerGate: A Closer Look At The Controversy Sweeping Video Games](http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/09/04/gamergate-a-closer-look-at-the-controversy-sweeping-video-games/)
>
> I’d consider this take on events to be relatively neutral, given how this has all evolved, but even it doesn’t discuss all the pieces (as the author specifically states). The harassment angle is merely one aspect of an overall shit-storm of events, but it seems particular groups are latching onto various elements of the greater discussion, and using them to leverage their point(s) in the discussion.
This article was posted way back on the first page: 🙂
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> [The story sounds like a gigantically tangled mess](http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/09/04/gamergate-a-closer-look-at-the-controversy-sweeping-video-games/) with a lot of people lashing out, making extreme statements, and bashing each other. I haven’t followed this closely at all. Based on my limited experience with **blindboyard** , I assume he’s full of shit in general.
As I stated before, I think this article suffers from fake-evenhandedness. The two sides really aren’t equal, any more than creationists and biologists are equal. It suggests that on the one hand, harrassment shouldn’t happen, but on the other hand, maybe we should have some empathy for guys who miss the days when gaming was a boy’s club.
No, actually, we shouldn’t have empathy for them, any more than we need to have empathy for folks who pine for the days of Jim Crow.
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