# Gamergate
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 5, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596 "2014-09-05T17:43:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 23
### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/441 "2014-09-19T06:58:31Z")
> [@Kobal2](#):
>
> I am aware of 4chan’s culture and amorphous nature, yeah. I don’t partake, but I enjoy 1d4chan’s output in spite of its tendency to run unfunny shit into the ground. Still, that’s kind of the problem. More on that later.
>
> Again, I grok that.
> But here’s the thing : if you don’t want to be associated with troglodytes, if you yourself aren’t a troglodyte, if you want to support non-troglodyte or even anti-troglodyte causes either financially or wordically… why, why, WHY, **WHY** choose to hang your hat in a place that is not only a notorious haven of vocal troglodytes, but whose very concept and rules ensures a steady influx of, and roomy accommodations for, troglodytes and the vilest, unfunniest shitpile of the internet ? To the point that when moot gently reminds them that 4chan is not exactly \*about \*being troglodytes, they have a collective pants-shitting session and scream betrayal ?
Because I like the general “don’t give a shit about anything” attitude there? The completely free, virtually untraceable communication (unless you do something _really_ illegal)? Because the porn’s good? I dunno. There are plenty of reasons why someone might frequent 4chan. Beyond that, sheer tribalism goes a long way in explaining this behavior. You’re part of a group now. Might be a shitty group, but a group nonetheless, and now you’re all getting called shitheads. THIS WILL NOT STAND! Let’s band together and stand up for our tribe! Kinda stupid, honestly, and part of the reason I’m not about to declare my internet affiliation as “4chan” (that, and the fact that I’m mostly just there for /gif/), but it makes sense to some people.
Also, the issue about Gamergate censorship was not about “Waaah! We’re not allowed to be terrible people”, it was about “Waah! We’re not allowed to talk about whatever we want!” Which, when it comes to 4chan culture, is kind of a big deal. That’s part of the reason a lot of people are there - to talk about _whatever they want_ without the constraints of even pseudonymity. Couple that with the SJW angle, a few posts by a former moderator who is displeased with the situation, and the (Moot-admitted) poor communication on the issue, and what a lot of people thought was happening was that 4chan was being taken over by the dreaded SJW scourge, and that moderators were going to sanitize discussion, which is absolutely antithetical to what 4chan is about.
> [@](#):
>
> Contrast with 4chan, where every time a bunch of /b/tards go out and do something that’s an even mix of terrible and retarded (as they’re wont to), there’s always a bunch of \*other \*fags who’ll go “bububut that’s just one part of 4chan ! It’s a big community ! There are other parts ! Good parts ! 4chan is anarchy, we can’t control what some people will do ! We don’t even know who they are nor if they’re serious or just fucking around !”. Yeah, we _know_, dude. But you still stick around. \*That’s \*why we’re disinclined to take you serious.
>
> (that’s all general yous, BTW. Not \*\*you \*\*you)
I can see that. But painting the whole group with the misogynist brush is still stupid, and assuming they donated $20,000 to a feminist group just to say “fuck you” to Zoe Quinn out of a hatred for women is just silly. Oh, I’d believe they’d do that to say “fuck you” to Zoe Quinn, but not because they hate women. Because they hate _Zoe Quinn_. Which, let’s be honest, as far as targets of hate go, I’ve seen much worse.
---
### Author:  [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/442 "2014-09-19T08:04:54Z")
> [@Ibanez](#):
>
> [More email leaks](http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/18/The-emails-that-prove-video-games-journalism-must-be-reformed)
You link to fucking Breitbart and expect anyone to take it seriously?
---
### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/443 "2014-09-19T08:23:26Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> I can see that. But painting the whole group with the misogynist brush is still stupid, and assuming they donated $20,000 to a feminist group just to say “fuck you” to Zoe Quinn out of a hatred for women is just silly. Oh, I’d believe they’d do that to say “fuck you” to Zoe Quinn, but not because they hate women. Because they hate _Zoe Quinn_. Which, let’s be honest, as far as targets of hate go, I’ve seen much worse.
If you just hate one black person because you think they are a nigger, does that make it not racism? They hate her for misogynist reasons. Everywhere else on the Internet where the same screed was posted, it was treated for what it was. But, on 4chan, many people believed it. Why? Because it’s a place where misogyny is allowed to run unchecked. They believed what happened because it fit their preconceived ideas.
The funny thing is that they are so scared of SJWs, when what they did was really just SJWism. Quinn was a social evil they needed to correct.
And, BTW, if you think Quinn is an acceptable target of hate, then I’m pretty sure you still buy some of the misogynist crap they were selling. There’s pretty much no legitimate reason to be upset at her.
And, really, when the rules are about not being a terrible person, and you are complaining about “not being able to say whatever you want,” I really don’t see the difference between that and complaining about “not being able to be a terrible person.”
The whole “freedom of speech” as a moral concept is largely populated by people who want to be the freedom to be a jerk. It’s almost never about some other type of censorship.
---
### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/444 "2014-09-19T08:30:42Z")
Also, according to the same apology by moot that you mentioned:
> [@](#):
>
> Regarding a perceived lack of free speech/censorship – many seem to misinterpret my advocating for anonymous communication and highlighting that it allows people to share things they otherwise wouldn’t be comfortable with on other platforms as “you can say and do anything on 4chan,” which simply isn’t the case. We’ve had rules and moderators since the site was founded _11 years ago_, and I’ve only reinforced this statement over the years, a la: [https://archive.moe/q/thread/580080/#580135](https://archive.moe/q/thread/580080/#580135)
So the whole “we can say whatever we want” aspect is a red herring.
---
### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/445 "2014-09-19T09:30:16Z")
Depression Quest is a terrible title, I think we can all agree.
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/446 "2014-09-19T13:05:48Z")
> [@eulalia](#):
>
> You link to fucking Breitbart and expect anyone to take it seriously?
Well, the senior gaming editor at Ars Techninca responded and apologized for the emails so, source sniping aside, they seem to be legitimate.
---
### Author:  [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/447 "2014-09-19T13:34:26Z")
> [@grude](#):
>
> Depression Quest is a terrible title, I think we can all agree.
You’re a weak poster, I write only for myself.
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### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/448 "2014-09-19T15:18:06Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> If you just hate one black person because you think they are a nigger, does that make it not racism? They hate her for misogynist reasons.
See, I’m not sure about this.
> [@](#):
>
> Everywhere else on the Internet where the same screed was posted, it was treated for what it was. But, on 4chan, many people believed it. Why? Because it’s a place where misogyny is allowed to run unchecked. They believed what happened because it fit their preconceived ideas.
This, on the other thing, I’d find convincing to a certain extent… Except that the criticism of people like Quinn, Sarkeesian, and “Tumblr Feminists” in general is _not entirely based in misogyny_. There are good reasons to not like these people beyond “they’re standing up for women and I don’t like women”. The article I’d normally link to, by a games design talking about how the mob mentality of the SJW crowd leads leads to a stifling, oppressive culture for game designers in the indie scene has been taken down by its authors, but there is something to it. What’s more, they often seem to really go out of their way to find ways to be offended by things - InternetAristocrat is a terrible person but his series on “Tumblrisms” really does offer some insight into why people might have beef with the SJW crowd.
> [@](#):
>
> And, BTW, if you think Quinn is an acceptable target of hate, then I’m pretty sure you still buy some of the misogynist crap they were selling. There’s pretty much no legitimate reason to be upset at her.
Really? You mean aside for her ludicrous and unwarranted critiques of TFYC? Her sinking a totally different game jam? The general complaint that she’s a part of and somewhat representative of the same general group of people who basically go out of their way looking for something to get offended about? I dunno, I’d say there are some legitimate grievances in there somewhere.
> [@BigT](#):
>
> Also, according to the same apology by moot that you mentioned:
>
> So the whole “we can say whatever we want” aspect is a red herring.
Hey, I never said they were _right_. Just that this is a perceived bit of board culture that they took seriously for no good reason.
And if you’ll excuse me I’ve spent something like a combined hour defending 4chan. I need to rethink my life choices.
---
### Author:  [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/449 "2014-09-19T15:21:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> Check out the new asshole–four posts, all about how much he hates Zoe Quinn. So glad he joined the board and is contributing so much! Blindboyard, you must be proud.
It looks like his username is the product of hurriedly clicking random keys. Is he searching every forum in existence for ZQ threads?
**Larry Borgia** , you might think this is all nonsense, and you’d be right, but it’s like watching a Mexican soap opera. I can’t understand what’s going on, but it’s entertaining to watch all these gamer industry nerds get all upset and flustered.
Also, SJW stands for “Social Justice Warriors.” I thought it was “Single Jewish Women.”
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/450 "2014-09-19T15:31:08Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> Really? You mean aside for her ludicrous and unwarranted critiques of TFYC?
In addition to “ludicrous” and “unwarranted,” I believe we can add “apocryphal.” When I asked you to cite the actual critiques, you were unable to do so.
You’ve criticized her for criticizing TFYC, and your beef with her is that her criticism of them is factually unfounded.
_But your criticism of her is factually unfounded_.
This is why I don’t use my irony meter on the Internet, and why doing so voids the warranty.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/451 "2014-09-19T17:44:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> Check out the new asshole–four posts, all about how much he hates Zoe Quinn. So glad he joined the board and is contributing so much! Blindboyard, you must be proud.
I read this guy’s monomania and I think of the class of stalker that thinks they are the victim and have to go to all these offensive stalking measures to stop it.
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### Author:  [@ANT\_Pogo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ANT_Pogo)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/452 "2014-09-19T18:19:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> Check out the new asshole–four posts, all about how much he hates Zoe Quinn. So glad he joined the board and is contributing so much! Blindboyard, you must be proud.
But remember, #gamergate isn’t all about attacking Zoe Quinn!
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/453 "2014-09-19T18:58:16Z")
> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> Well, the senior gaming editor at Ars Techninca responded and apologized for the emails so, source sniping aside, they seem to be legitimate.
Legitimate, sure, but his post was very much a nuanced apology. What he says is that it’s a place for folks to bounce ideas around. The “public letter of support” idea was bounced around **and rejected** , due to journalism ethics; his apology is for raising the idea in the first place, which strikes me as ridiculous (it’s hardly such a terrible idea that its mere mention should cause the vapors).
The scandal isn’t even that the equivalent of a sympathy card was sent, then–it’s that the idea of sending one was considered and rejected. What kind of dummy thinks considering a sympathy card, and rejecting sending a sympathy card, is a scandal?
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/454 "2014-09-19T19:12:17Z")
I’m not arguing if it was a scandal, I’m saying that hand-waving “Bah, Breitbart!” is wrongly dismissive of the emails that do, in fact, exist. I’ll leave you guys to quarrel about if they’re meaningful but they didn’t stop existing just because a source someone doesn’t like reported on them.
I don’t care for [Breitbart.com](http://Breitbart.com) either but, with the emails confirmed by the alleged sender, there’s no question of their legitimacy any longer.
Edit: Huh, I didn’t know the forum autolinked a URL with no www or whatever to it. Anyway, I only added the dot-com since some people in the world still claim to be confused when you invoke the name of a dead guy as a website name.
Edit II: And now it unlinked it. Ok, you win this round SDMB software.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/455 "2014-09-19T19:14:22Z")
> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> I’m not arguing if it was a scandal, I’m saying that hand-waving “Bah, Breitbart!” is wrongly dismissive of the emails that do, in fact, exist. I’ll leave you guys to quarrel about if they’re meaningful but they didn’t stop existing just because a source someone doesn’t like reported on them.
>
> I don’t care for [Breitbart.com](http://Breitbart.com) either but, with the emails confirmed by the alleged sender, there’s no question of their legitimacy any longer.
The “bah, Breitbart!” is correctly directed at the absurdly “J’accuse!” tone of the article. It’s as if someone read a tweet making a self-deprecating joke about overwhelming someone’s server with traffic and started seriously accusing the person of DDOSing the server.
Yes, the emails existed. No, they’re not remotely scandalous, as Breitbart pretends.
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/456 "2014-09-19T19:16:34Z")
> [@blindboyard](#):
>
> Yeah, right, six months before Gamergate started someone supposedly sent in an anonymous bomb threat to an event Sarkeesian was attending, which she (who makes a meal of every little slight she gets) hasn’t mentioned until now, and which didn’t stop her turning up to the event. And it gets revealed just after that Breitbart article about the secret mailing list the forces of villainy were using to co-ordinate their evil deeds.
This is what I’m talking about. Let’s translate insane misogynist troll cretin into English:
**Secret mailing list** : a semiprivate mailing list available to any game journalist with no shibboleths for entry.
**Forces of villainy** : said game journalists.
**Coordinate** : bounce ideas off of one another.
**Evil deeds** : sympathy card.
**Breitbart** only encourages this sort of stupidity.
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### Author:  [@ANT\_Pogo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ANT_Pogo)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/457 "2014-09-19T19:29:33Z")
> [@blindboyard](#):
>
> Yeah, right, six months before Gamergate started someone supposedly sent in an anonymous bomb threat to an event Sarkeesian was attending, which she (who makes a meal of every little slight she gets) hasn’t mentioned until now, and which didn’t stop her turning up to the event.
The SFPD’s spokesperson mentioned a March incident in the Aurini conversation that was used to (falsely) accuse Sarkeesian of lying about reporting threats to the police. Kotaku’s Stephen Totilo, while investigating these false claims about Sarkeesian, found out more details about this March incident, and quoted the organizers of the [Game Developer’s Choice Awards](http://www.gamechoiceawards.com/) (whose ceremony was threatened with the bomb attack) about the threat made in March, as well as quoting the SFPD spokesperson again who described the Explosive Ordinance Disposal Division sweeping the site of the awards ceremony with officers and bomb-sniffing dogs.
So, care to try again?
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### Author:  [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/458 "2014-09-19T20:16:23Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#):
>
> Also, SJW stands for “Social Justice Warriors.” I thought it was “Single Jewish Women.”
Huh! I’d gone with “Sympathetic Jerk Wad”. Go fig. Learn something new every day.
Regards,
-Bouncer-
---
### Author:  [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/459 "2014-09-19T20:44:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> The “bah, Breitbart!” is correctly directed at the absurdly “J’accuse!” tone of the article. It’s as if someone read a tweet making a self-deprecating joke about overwhelming someone’s server with traffic and started seriously accusing the person of DDOSing the server.
>
> Yes, the emails existed. No, they’re not remotely scandalous, as Breitbart pretends.
Manufactured scandal is pretty much Breitbart’s raison d’etre IMO.
---
### Author:  [@bosbfdsfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bosbfdsfd)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/460 "2014-09-19T23:02:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> I think 4chan is terrible
I don’t care 🙂
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