# Gamergate
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 5, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596 "2014-09-05T17:43:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 25
### Author:  [@bosbfdsfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bosbfdsfd)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/481 "2014-09-20T01:40:20Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> All that crap has already been covered in thread, and none of it is true.
Sure it is, sorry.
> [@BigT](#):
>
> Making feminist points is not looking to be offended.
She wasn’t making “feminist” points since there’s nothing feminist about female supremacy. Without (lying about) being offended, Quinn would be in a soup kitchen, lacking as she is any kind of marketable talent.
> [@BigT](#):
>
> That’s MRA-style bullshit.
Says the FRA-style bullshitter.
> [@BigT](#):
>
> The complaints she made were legitimate (even if you disagreed with them), and it’s impossible for her to have shut anything down. She is a virtual nobody.
She was a virtual nobody, and should’ve been treated as such by the “media.” But since those idiots agreed with her idiotic opinions, they deified her and set about attacking their readership. We can see how well that’s working out for them now 🙂
> [@BigT](#):
>
> What you are describing here is just feminism.
It never was feminism, sorry.
> [@BigT](#):
>
> Yes, sometimes it means saying things that some other people disagree with. Isn’t that the supposed “freedom of speech” that 4chan values so much? But, no, because it’s feminism, it’s worst thing ever. There’s the misogyny.
Wrong. It’s just fake feminism, and Quinn and her ilk use it as a shield, because their indefensible and imbecilic political positions can’t stand up to scrutiny.
---
### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/482 "2014-09-20T08:02:38Z")
> [@bosbfdsfd](#):
>
> Sure you had.
>
> There’s no “now” about it ☹
I’m a 40-year-old translator from Tel Aviv, Israel. How the hell would I know who Zoe Quinn is?
---
### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/483 "2014-09-20T08:12:36Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#):
>
> You’re a weak poster, I write only for myself.
I’ve never played it, I’m talking about the name. If that movie hadn’t used it already I’d go with Melancholia or something.
---
### Author:  [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/484 "2014-09-20T08:57:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> :rolleyes: An empiricist would immediately ask herself, “Is this point valid? It predicts that virtually no atheists are on Quinn’s side. Let me test this prediction.” Since you’re less of a reasonable empiricist and more of a dumbshit asshole, of course, that didn’t occur to you.
There has been the “Atheism+” controversy, so I know there are self-proclaimed atheists who who believe all sorts of bullshit.
> [@](#):
>
> What it’s coming to is that you and your ilk are too ugly, too vicious, too poisonous **for 4chan**. Think about that for a bit. You’re such an asshole even 4chan can’t stand you.
Alternatively, you are so insidious and malevolent you have managed to corrupt **even 4chan**. A place of innocent trolling and carefree lulz, until you foul swine corrupted it with your “moral fag” politics and your purges of the “old fag” mods.
> [@](#):
>
> More Gish gallop–although clearly your ride is tired, because you’re offering some of the discredited horseshit you’ve offered before.
>
> This is an interesting spin on the Gish gallop. You and your hideous trollkin clan have been trying to focus on a new target because you’ve so clearly been shown to be poisonous liars in the case of Quinn, so clearly that,
You know, hysterically shrieking “LIAR!” isn’t a substitute for evidence, much as you’re like it to be.
> [@](#):
>
> again, 4chan has turned on you. 4chan, ferchrissake! You’ve got a new target because you lost.
Because moot is a treacherous rabid dog, in fact.
> [@](#):
>
> And if Quinn won’t let you move on, good on her. You should reap the consequences of your ugliness. Maybe if your nose is smeared in your mess, you won’t shit in the living room any more.
Then I’ll shit on the roof of your car and write “FREE SPEECH” on the paint work.
---
### Author:  [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/485 "2014-09-20T09:04:53Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> All that crap has already been covered in thread, and none of it is true. Making feminist points is not looking to be offended. That’s MRA-style bullshit. The complaints she made were legitimate (even if you disagreed with them),
They were not legitimate. They were contrary to the known facts. They were immediately clarified by TFYC as well, and she just doubled down on her original lies.
> [@](#):
>
> and it’s impossible for her to have shut anything down. She is a virtual nobody. Her only power is that she makes statements some people agree with. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
She’s a virtual no-body who’s been on a Gaming TV programme, had 30,000 twitter followers and was known the the s Evil League of Evil’s e-mail list. She was well connected enough that journalists explicitly stated that they wouldn’t cover the FYC because she said they were oppressive. The only reason she didn’t ruin them is because the glorious Order of 4chan rode to their rescue.
> [@](#):
>
> All this crap comes from reading the missive from her ex-boyfriend and believing it, and then looking for shit that proves she is horrible. \*These \*are the people looking for things to be offended about, not Quinn.
Her ex-boyfriend provides evidence for all his claims, and the Wizard Chan thing was current even before that.
> [@](#):
>
> What you are describing here is just feminism. Yes, sometimes it means saying things that some other people disagree with. Isn’t that the supposed “freedom of speech” that 4chan values so much? But, no, because it’s feminism, it’s worst thing ever. There’s the misogyny.
No, not because it’s feminism, because it’s censorious.
> [@](#):
>
> Finally, I’ve looked at 4chan occasionally. (The lack of intelligent conversation and glorification of trollery are not my cuppa tea, but I’ve at least checked it out.) There are people in /v/ who just want to discuss vidya and are disgusted by this whole thing. And they aren’t afraid to say it. You aren’t defending 4chan, but the troll subset of 4chan. Basically, you’re defending /b/_shudder_
There was a poll done on 4chan, the majority certainly seem to hate the new mods and their silencing of debate. No-one had a problem when 4chan was just merging threads to keep gamergate in one place, only the attempts to silence all debate have aroused ill-feeling. Of course it might look like /v/ is largely against gamergate, because all gamergate discussion is being deleted. The worst part of censorship is \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_.
---
### Author:  [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/486 "2014-09-20T09:06:45Z")
> [@Jragon](#):
>
> It says something that on Something Awful there’s a thread called **gamers.txt** that’s more or less entirely dedicated to making fun of awful MRA-ish posts gamers make elsewhere on the web.
>
> (I mean, that thread is terrible, but it exists and is pretty representative of the general mindset there.)
Something Awful started all this. Eron Gjoni posted his story there, on a break-ups thread, and they deleted it. If they’re let it be this might never have happened.
> [@BigT](#):
>
> If you just hate one black person because you think they are a nigger, does that make it not racism? They hate her for misogynist reasons. Everywhere else on the Internet where the same screed was posted, it was treated for what it was. But, on 4chan, many people believed it. Why? Because it’s a place where misogyny is allowed to run unchecked. They believed what happened because it fit their preconceived ideas.
No, they believed it because there was evidence for every single claim, provided by the ex. Other boards didn’t disbelieve it, they censored it.
> [@](#):
>
> The whole “freedom of speech” as a moral concept is largely populated by people who want to be the freedom to be a jerk. It’s almost never about some other type of censorship.
Thankyou for taking that brave stand against freedom of speech.
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#):
>
> No, he clearly thinks the Jews are in it as well:
>
> (bolding mine.)
You’ve clearly never been to /pol/.
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> That…may be the least scandalous thing to have happened in the history of non-scandalous things. People see a colleague (yes, Breitbart, you dead ass, a colleague, someone else who works in the gaming industry) getting mobbed by poisonous cretins, and they want to send her a letter of support. And that’s your scandal? Are you fucking kidding me?
Someone who made a bad “game” isn’t a colleague of a journalist who covers video games.
> [@Knowed\_Out](#):
>
> **blindboyard** is like a soap opera writer in l33t speak. I’ve never seen anybody so colorfully paranoid. To him, ZQ is some evil overlord with a cabal of overzealous online assassins who can crush innocent internet startups with a snap of her slutty fingers.
There are certainly a legion of half-wit SJWs just looking for a cause, and a woman who commits offensive and corrupt acts is perfect. The more corrupt the better, so they can demonstrate their loyalty to the cause rather than the truth.
> [@ANT\_Pogo](#):
>
> She doesn’t have to. You’re living, breathing proof it’s all about attacking her, and that the whole “ethics in games journalism” thing was bullshit all along.
He’s living, breathing proof that the rest of the movement doesn’t exist.
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> Legitimate, sure, but his post was very much a nuanced apology. What he says is that it’s a place for folks to bounce ideas around. The “public letter of support” idea was bounced around **and rejected** , due to journalism ethics; his apology is for raising the idea in the first place, which strikes me as ridiculous (it’s hardly such a terrible idea that its mere mention should cause the vapors).
>
> The scandal isn’t even that the equivalent of a sympathy card was sent, then–it’s that the idea of sending one was considered and rejected. What kind of dummy thinks considering a sympathy card, and rejecting sending a sympathy card, is a scandal?
Except it wasn’t rejected, was sent, is available on the internet and was signed by most of the people on that list. More evidence, as if it was needed, that to you facts are an alien concept.
---
### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/487 "2014-09-20T09:22:06Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> All that crap has already been covered in thread, and none of it is true. Making feminist points is not looking to be offended. That’s MRA-style bullshit. The complaints she made were legitimate (even if you disagreed with them)
I’m sorry, but no, they weren’t. She may have believed them, but that does not grant them legitimacy. Especially given that she was _so_ wrong on so many levels. As for the “looking to be offended” comment, the issue is not feminist critique. It’s scouring every possible avenue for anything to make the point, then ignoring all context and being intentionally dishonest about the results. Quinn isn’t really guilty of much of that, to my knowledge (although you could definitely make a case about it in the case of her critique of TFYC). She’s at least in part suffering the backlash brought on by people like Rebecca Watson and Anita Sarkeesian.
> [@](#):
>
> and it’s impossible for her to have shut anything down. She is a virtual nobody. Her only power is that she makes statements some people agree with. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I don’t hate Quinn. I think there’s no good reason for her to be this well-known (thank you, internet), I think that she absolutely does not deserve the shit flung at her, and I don’t want to be part of a witch hunt. I dislike her because I think she’s acted kind of shitty towards an initiative I find absolutely worth supporting. My main point here over the last few pages has been to point out that TFYC wasn’t “getting into bed with misogynists”. Misogynists wouldn’t dole out 5 figures to support a feminist group. 4chan has a lot of shitheads. _These people weren’t them_.
> [@](#):
>
> What you are describing here is just feminism. Yes, sometimes it means saying things that some other people disagree with. Isn’t that the supposed “freedom of speech” that 4chan values so much? But, no, because it’s feminism, it’s worst thing ever. There’s the misogyny.
But of course, if I go around your place of business and start throwing around baseless and (for you) quite damning accusations of misconduct, that’s not free speech, is it? There’s not much room for a lawsuit, and I don’t think TFYC would have pursued that avenue anyways (instead, they tried to contact Quinn to get her to _help them fix the problem_), but it’s not the same thing to throw these kinds of accusations around.
> [@](#):
>
> Finally, I’ve looked at 4chan occasionally. (The lack of intelligent conversation and glorification of trollery are not my cuppa tea, but I’ve at least checked it out.) There are people in /v/ who just want to discuss vidya and are disgusted by this whole thing. And they aren’t afraid to say it. You aren’t defending 4chan, but the troll subset of 4chan. Basically, you’re defending /b/_shudder_
No, that is very explicitly _not_ what I am trying to do. What I am trying to do is rebut the point that TFYC, and I quote, “Jumped into bed with the misogynists from /v/”. Because that point is a steaming pile of horseshit. Anonymous is not some concerted group effort; the people donating to TFYC did not do it because they _hated women_.
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/488 "2014-09-20T12:53:02Z")
> [@blindboyard](#):
>
> There has been the “Atheism+” controversy, so I know there are self-proclaimed atheists who who believe all sorts of bullshit.
So you shouldn’t make such dumb claims about how atheists are all reasonable. Sure, it’s less dumb than a lot of your claims, but that’s only because the bar is so low.
> [@](#):
>
> Alternatively, you are so insidious and malevolent you have managed to corrupt **even 4chan**. A place of innocent trolling and carefree lulz, until you foul swine corrupted it with your “moral fag” politics and your purges of the “old fag” mods.
Ha! Yeah, that’s the likeliest explanation.
> [@](#):
>
> You know, hysterically shrieking “LIAR!” isn’t a substitute for evidence, much as you’re like it to be.
I don’t need to offer evidence to rebut claims that you offer without evidence. You’re a proven liar, and you’re a fan of the Gish gallop, and it’s not appropriate for me to try to rebut every gallop you offer up.
> [@](#):
>
> Then I’ll shit on the roof of your car and write “FREE SPEECH” on the paint work.
Finally, a claim in line with all the facts!
> [@blindboyard](#):
>
> Except it wasn’t rejected, was sent, is available on the internet and was signed by most of the people on that list. More evidence, as if it was needed, that to you facts are an alien concept.
I know I shouldn’t rebut your evidence-free claims, but what the hell. [According to the semi-apology](http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/addressing-allegations-of-collusion-among-gaming-journalists/):
> [@Kyle Orland](#):
>
> In the heat of the moment, I suggested that gaming journalists organize a “public letter of support” for Quinn. Later in the discussion thread, cooler heads prevailed and made me realize that this would be overstepping our primary role as reporters and observers (which is exactly the kind of productive, self-correcting debate the group engenders). No such note was ever sent.
Ball’s in your court–is Kyle lying, or you? Cite?
---
### Author:  [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/489 "2014-09-20T14:51:32Z")
> [@ANT\_Pogo](#):
>
> Kotaku’s Stephen Totilo, while investigating these false claims about Sarkeesian, found out more details about this March incident, and quoted the organizers of the [Game Developer’s Choice Awards](http://www.gamechoiceawards.com/) (whose ceremony was threatened with the bomb attack) about the threat made in March, as well as quoting the SFPD spokesperson again who described the Explosive Ordinance Disposal Division sweeping the site of the awards ceremony with officers and bomb-sniffing dogs.
I considered posting about this when it broke, but I was overseas working with an indie team all week and my internet was spotty.
Someone threatened to blow up the Game Developer’s Choice Awards in March because Anita Sarkeesian was going to be accepting an honor there. The police swept the awards hall before the ceremony began. This is what Gamergate is about – people using harassment and threats of violence in an attempt to silence voices they disagree with.
---
### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/490 "2014-09-20T15:50:48Z")
> [@bosbfdsfd](#):
>
> Again, who told you that those you have contempt for care what you (are told to) think about their associations?
_shrug_ feel free to not care. It’s your sludgepile.
Just don’t be surprised when people don’t particularly listen to what you have to say \*outside \*of your sludgepile. It’s pretty simple, and core communication : if you don’t care what I think, you brave nonconformist rebel you, why should I give a lonely, half-soft fuck about anything you have to say?
And if you don’t care that I care about anything you have to say, why you come to mah e-crib and talk at me, bitch ?
[QUOTE=Alessan]
I’m a 40-year-old translator from Tel Aviv, Israel. How the hell would I know who Zoe Quinn is?
[/QUOTE]
She didn’t fuck you ? I thought she’d done all of the Internet to secure undying loyalty, deliberately excepting 4chan. She sure did me, that’s why I’m more on her side.
---
### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/491 "2014-09-20T15:56:43Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#):
>
> **Larry Borgia** , you might think this is all nonsense, and you’d be right, but it’s like watching a Mexican soap opera. I can’t understand what’s going on, but it’s entertaining to watch all these gamer industry nerds get all upset and flustered.
We don’t have gloriously heaving bosoms, though ? 😕 🙂
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/492 "2014-09-20T16:21:46Z")
> [@blindboyard](#):
>
> Alternatively, you are so insidious and malevolent you have managed to corrupt **even 4chan**. A place of innocent trolling and carefree lulz, until you foul swine corrupted it with your “moral fag” politics and your purges of the “old fag” mods.
> [@blindboyard](#):
>
> She’s a virtual no-body who’s been on a Gaming TV programme, had 30,000 twitter followers and was known the the s Evil League of Evil’s e-mail list. She was well connected enough that journalists explicitly stated that they wouldn’t cover the FYC because she said they were oppressive. The only reason she didn’t ruin them is because the glorious Order of 4chan rode to their rescue.
> [@blindboyard](#):
>
> Thankyou for taking that brave stand against freedom of speech.
Have you ever tried \*not \*being insane? Just as a change of pace?
---
### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/493 "2014-09-20T17:55:05Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> Have you ever tried \*not \*being insane? Just as a change of pace?
Oh, the insane part is manageable. He tried being a decent human being once, and it was the scariest 14 seconds of his life.
.
---
### Author:  [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/494 "2014-09-20T18:29:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#):
>
> We don’t have gloriously heaving bosoms, though ? 😕 🙂
You manage to compensate with exhaustive melodrama.
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/495 "2014-09-20T18:38:18Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#):
>
> You manage to compensate with exhaustive melodrama.
Thing is, when someone is facing death threats, complaining about the folks organizing the harassment isn’t melodramatic. When more than one person is facing similar harassment, it’s totally appropriate to look into what’s going on, and looking into it isn’t melodramatic.
The melodrama is **entirely** one-sided, from folks who turn an unsent sympathy card into the “League of Evil,” who turn a friendship between a journalist and a game designer into a “tangled skein of corrupt financial and sexual ties,” who turn their own banning from the world’s most permissive forum into the actions of a “rabid dog.”
Taking a “Pox on both your houses” attitude is not an appropriate reaction in a case like this.
Edit: given your last post, we might be on the same page :).
---
### Author:  [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/496 "2014-09-20T18:39:42Z")
> [@blindboyard](#):
>
> There are certainly a legion of half-wit SJWs just looking for a cause, and a woman who commits offensive and corrupt acts is perfect. The more corrupt the better, so they can demonstrate their loyalty to the cause rather than the truth.
(Sniff) That’s beautiful. In the background a male chorus is humming “Glory Glory Hallelujah” while a snare drum plays a cadence. What’s next on this paragon of evil’s agenda, making some 8-10 word tweet about FYC that will inspire her legions of sex slaves to click on their site and slow it down for a couple of minutes? How _insidious_! Please go into flowery detail on how this ruins absolutely no one.
---
### Author:  [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/497 "2014-09-20T19:13:23Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> Thing is, when someone is facing death threats, complaining about the folks organizing the harassment isn’t melodramatic. When more than one person is facing similar harassment, it’s totally appropriate to look into what’s going on, and looking into it isn’t melodramatic.
Guess what? I’ve gotten death threats too. I was playing WoW and typed Murlock jokes in a city zone chat channel. All the “LOL I’m gonna kill you” responses I was getting made me want to whine on #crocodileEtears.
Look, I appreciate you’re trying to bring sanity and civility to this circus, but this is essentially a bunch of children fighting in a sandbox. ZQ has the plastic shovel, and the other kids are shouting “If you don’t give it back, we’re gonna kill you!” This will all be forgotten once the next internet scandal emerges.
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/498 "2014-09-20T19:41:41Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#):
>
> Guess what? I’ve gotten death threats too. I was playing WoW and typed Murlock jokes in a city zone chat channel. All the “LOL I’m gonna kill you” responses I was getting made me want to whine on #crocodileEtears.
Surely you don’t think this is equivalent.
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### Author:  [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/499 "2014-09-20T20:07:06Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#):
>
> Guess what? I’ve gotten death threats too. I was playing WoW and typed Murlock jokes in a city zone chat channel.
How did you handle the angry phone calls to your parents? Did the police feel the bomb threats to your place of work were worth investigating?
---
### Author:  [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/500 "2014-09-20T20:25:25Z")
> [@grude](#):
>
> I’ve never played it, I’m talking about the name. If that movie hadn’t used it already I’d go with Melancholia or something.
I actually don’t hate the name “Depression Quest”. ‘[XYZ] Quest’ is a well-established convention for naming RPGs/visual novels, and it is a game all about depression. It’s not going to win any creativity awards, sure, but it gets the message across loud and clear. In fact, given that the game is apparently simple in its gameplay, one could even argue that the blandness of the title is also descriptive.
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