# Gamergate **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 5, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596 "2014-09-05T17:43:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/982 "2014-10-17T20:31:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > \*\*And that also is wrong. It is quite routine for multiple people to write about the same subject in the same way simply because that very thing is what everyone is talking about. This is zero evidence for a problem with journalistic integrity. It’s simply the reality of public discourse. \*\* > > In the other hand, I’m not surprised to see this lane firm of concern trolling being used to justify a vile reactionary campaign of hate. It’s a common tactic of propagandists. > > Speaking as a journalist, I have many concerns about journalists and ethics. This doesn’t even come close to being a concern. People often write about things going on in the world at the same time. > > In this case there’s absolutely nothing suspicious about it. All of the writers cited above are reacting to the same public event. That they are involved in a public conversation about it—perhaps some of them even with one another—is not in the least problematic. So, we have a bunch of 2nd rate journalists all covering the same story on the same day. What was this story about? Lets be neutral here; it was possible to interpret this story as one of journalistic integrity or misogyny. Every one of these articles took the misogyny angle. All of them using the same talking points and the same narrative. Well, call me skeptical that this was coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/983 "2014-10-17T20:38:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yes, I want to know if Fuzzy Wuzzy admits that those accusations about Quinn are lies. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I asked you a direct question. Is evasion going to be your standard response? Because if it is, then it is quite clear Gamergate is the right cause for you. > > Are you admitting you were wrong about everything else? > > Why was Leigh Alexander singled out? You shall have to give me more details on the claim that these allegations are false. I have already dealt with the allegation of journalist collusion. An allegation which I was given assurances were false. Yet, it turns out no such assurances could be backed up. All I recieved was a shrug of an internet shoulder by a journalist who asked me to trust his fellow journalists. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/984 "2014-10-17T20:49:14Z")
Hi skeptical! Clearly you haven’t dealt with it satisfactorily. How do you divine between articles borne out of collusion and articles that are on the same topic because that topic is on the public’s mind at the time? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/985 "2014-10-17T20:51:25Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > So, we have a bunch of 2nd rate journalists all covering the same story on the same day. What was this story about? Lets be neutral here; it was possible to interpret this story as one of journalistic integrity or misogyny. Every one of these articles took the misogyny angle. All of them using the same talking points and the same narrative. Well, call me skeptical that this was coincidence. But women are treated like shit regularly by the gaming community. Any online player knows that. The situation is better at conventions like PAX (which I have found nothing but inviting to the female friends I go with), but the game store shouldn’t be a freaky place full of guys ready to ask women to “prove” their gaming bonafides. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/986 "2014-10-17T20:53:24Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Lets be neutral here; it was possible to interpret this story as one of journalistic integrity or misogyny. Every one of these articles took the misogyny angle. Uh, because the story was a female developer being harassed by an internet gang ginned up by her ex-boyfriend? If the concern was journalistic ethics why were the attacks directed at Quinn and not the journalist? As for why all these stories at once? Twitter. There’s a constant conversation about the industry happening behind the scenes 24/7. Things bubble up into the press out of this conversation, and if a lot of people are talking about the same thing, it’s likely a lot of articles will get written about it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/987 "2014-10-17T20:53:50Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > The cozy relationship thing has always baffled me. There are 1000s of game review sites out there. Most of them are very small. A small portion are very big. But aside from a few jokes about IGN’s 1-10 scale actually starting at 7, I’ve rarely seen any examples of what this “cozy relationship” entails. That’s one of the things that most bemuses me about this whole issue. I remember when there were legitimate concerns about the quality of game journalism and the relationship between reviewers and publishers. But this was back in the '90s, when, if you wanted to read a game review, you had to go to the newsstand and buy a magazine. Mags like PCGamer and Computer Gaming World relied pretty much 100% on advertising revenue for their business model, and they were advertising exactly the products they were reviewing. This sort of conflict of interest made all of their reviews somewhat suspect, and there were some legitimate scandals that came out of that. I don’t really think this is too much of an issue any more, what with the huge proliferation of review sites, and the removal of virtually all the traditional barriers to publishing thanks to the rise of blogs and personal websites and the like. Arguably, it’s still a problem with the bigger review sites (Hence IGN’s 7-10 point rating system), but there are so many alternatives out there, it’s hard to get upset about it. > [@](#): > > Parties with booze… OK. Free swag packaged with review copies… sure. But the movie industry is much much worse and if you need a keychain to sway a reviewer around to liking your game, the real quality of it is going to be found out sooner rather than later. And then both sides are in the shit. The _other_ reason I don’t get too upset about this stuff any more is that news media in general has become so bad in recent years, getting upset about game journalism is kind of silly. The absolute worst thing that could happen because of poor game journalism is I spend fifty bucks or so on a shit game. Meanwhile, “legitimate” news outlets are deliberately lying about health care, climate change, international politics, and a host of other shit that could actually kill me if we don’t handle it correctly. If we can fix FOX and CNN, _then_ we can worry about IGN. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/988 "2014-10-17T21:02:09Z")
[“Actually, it’s about ethics in games journalism.”](https://twitter.com/Alejandrobot/status/522257219573006336) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/989 "2014-10-17T21:05:50Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > You shall have to give me more details on the claim that these allegations are false. There were nine hundred and fifty posts to this thread before you showed up. Did you read _any_ of them? > [@](#): > > I have already dealt with the allegation of journalist collusion. An allegation which I was given assurances were false. Yet, it turns out no such assurances could be backed up. All I recieved was a shrug of an internet shoulder by a journalist who asked me to trust his fellow journalists. Okay, let’s say you’re right. The fact that all those articles were published on the same day was a direct result of those six game journalists getting together somewhere (presumably wearing black robes under a full moon) and agreeing that they were all going to write stories about “gamer culture” being dead. So what? Why should I care? Who is harmed in this scenario? Who is profiting unjustly? I mean, if this is the worst excess of journalistic impropriety you can come up with, gaming journalism would seem to be in pretty fucking good shape. Particularly, as I mentioned above, when compared to mainstream journalism in general. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/990 "2014-10-17T21:06:27Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > So, we have a bunch of **2nd rate** journalists all covering the same story on the same day. Gratuitous insults don’t help your argument. > [@](#): > > What was this story about? Lets be neutral here; it was possible to interpret this story as one of journalistic integrity or misogyny. There is no rational, objective basis to character this as a story about journalistic integrity. Zero. That “angle” is nothing more than window dressing for a harassment campaign. > [@](#): > > Every one of these articles took the misogyny angle. Yes, because that’s the factual angle. > [@](#): > > All of them using the same talking points and the same narrative. Well, call me skeptical that this was coincidence. This is nothing more than CT nonsense. > [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > You shall have to give me more details on the claim that these allegations are false. The only conceivable reason for you not to know by now is that you don’t want to know. The information is easily obtained. Go look for it. > [@](#): > > I have already dealt with the allegation of journalist collusion. An allegation which I was given assurances were false. Yet, it turns out no such assurances could be backed up. All I recieved was a shrug of an internet shoulder by a journalist who asked me to trust his fellow journalists. You have not established any basis for “collusion,” whatever you mean by that. All you have found is a series of articles that have accurately described a situation and reached the same general conclusion. The facts on which these articles are based are there for all the public to see. There’s no need to “trust” these writers because all the facts are evident. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/991 "2014-10-17T21:25:56Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But women are treated like shit regularly by the gaming community. Any online player knows that. The situation is better at conventions like PAX (which I have found nothing but inviting to the female friends I go with), but the game store shouldn’t be a freaky place full of guys ready to ask women to “prove” their gaming bonafides. This is a slightly different topic. We are talking about a male dominated environment. One dominated particularly by young-ish males. It’s natural you will get a creep quota wherever these younger males congregate. THis is a different issue to gamergate imo. That issue seems to be more about journalism and the game development industry. It is here that the feminist/mysoginist debate cannot be entirely seperated from gamergate. There is a legitimate complaint by gamers that an ideological movement is trying to take away the type of games they enjoy. When this happens, rightly or wrongly an entire clusterf\*ck of passions and concerns will emerge. Some of them legitimate concerns, some of them not. Some gamergate arguments will be valid, some will descend into downright abuse against it’s percieved ideologue opponents. In my opinion the former is predominant over the latter in the gamergate movement. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/992 "2014-10-17T21:27:33Z")
> [@Orr\_G](#): > > Maybe I’m too much of a goody-goody, but I want to reach out to those who haven’t completely lost themselves and find a way to bring them over to the right side, where we don’t spew hate against our fellow human beings for spurious reasons. > > Aren’t we still on the right side? A good friend (and former Doper) wrote a good [blog post](http://www.spectrecollie.com/archives/2014/09/its-a-good-life) about this attitude. The bits that, I think, might be most relevant to you: > [@](#): > > I’d been seeing all the reports of harassment, and I started wondering out loud what kind of mentality causes socially awkward nerds to become such violent bullies. I was saying that obviously, there are some irredeemable assholes motivated entirely by misogyny. But what about the non-trolls who feel so powerless they’ve convinced themselves that they’re the ones who are under attack? > > A friend pointed out, simply: “I wouldn’t call them non-trolls.” And it was as if a lightning bolt finally struck through all the layers of rationalization and self-assurance I’d built up, and all the pieces started to fall into place. I realized that I was giving all of my sympathy to the people who deserved it the least, and all my skepticism and criticism to the people who deserved it least. Any second spent trying to figure out what makes these assholes tick is a second that’d be better spent trying to actually help the people who are being targeted by them. > > It simply doesn’t matter what motivates these assholes — whether they’re seriously damaged psychologically, or they’re self-important “free-thinkers,” or they’re doing it “for the lulz.” You’ll see a lot of dismissals along the lines of “it’s not personal,” or “it’s just a game to them,” or “misogyny isn’t really the problem; it’s rooted in power/bullying/anonymity/whatever.” As if it’s somehow better if a person says, “Sure, I was part of the crowd targeting this person and her friends and family with rape threats, death threats, hacking attempts, a deluge of demeaning and critical messages on every social network, and YouTube videos, but I was doing it ironically.” The reality is that they are, demonstrably, provably, causing serious problems for people who don’t deserve it. And no one deserves it. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/993 "2014-10-17T21:28:10Z")
And once again: > [@andros](#): > > You keep fucking that chicken. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/994 "2014-10-17T21:39:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Gratuitous insults don’t help your argument. > > There is no rational, objective basis to character this as a story about journalistic integrity. Zero. That “angle” is nothing more than window dressing for a harassment campaign. > > Yes, because that’s the factual angle. > > This is nothing more than CT nonsense. > > The only conceivable reason for you not to know by now is that you don’t want to know. The information is easily obtained. Go look for it. > > You have not established any basis for “collusion,” whatever you mean by that. All you have found is a series of articles that have accurately described a situation and reached the same general conclusion. The facts on which these articles are based are there for all the public to see. There’s no need to “trust” these writers because all the facts are evident. Oh c’mon! It’s obvious the people angrily referencing 5 Guy Burgers were doing this because trusted a reviewer and bought a shit game! Beyond that, it’s noxious to constantly be waving around the gender card! If a 24-year-old man was accused of having slept with five women people would be making the same kind of crude remarks. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/995 "2014-10-17T21:41:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > There were nine hundred and fifty posts to this thread before you showed up. Did you read _any_ of them? > > Okay, let’s say you’re right. The fact that all those articles were published on the same day was a direct result of those six game journalists getting together somewhere (presumably wearing black robes under a full moon) and agreeing that they were all going to write stories about “gamer culture” being dead. > > So what? Why should I care? Who is harmed in this scenario? Who is profiting unjustly? I mean, if this is the worst excess of journalistic impropriety you can come up with, gaming journalism would seem to be in pretty fucking good shape. Particularly, as I mentioned above, when compared to mainstream journalism in general. Sorry, im not about to read 20 pages of posts. Who said anything about all 6 or 7 journalists getting together? All it takes is for one central character(or PR firm who’s job it is to garner sympathetic stories) to collude with each journalist or editor. This is the way PR firms work. You have heard of these new fangled organizations called PR firms? Organizations that give information to journalists, that try to set the media agenda. You should read up on them, they are fascinating. Fair enough if you dont care about the issue. Just dont attempt to say that its been proven no collusion has taken place(just as I havent proven collusion). You lean towards the narrative you wish to believe; I shall lean towards mine. Everyone’s happy. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/996 "2014-10-17T21:49:10Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > This is a slightly different topic. We are talking about a male dominated environment. One dominated particularly by young-ish males. It’s natural you will get a creep quota wherever these younger males congregate. There’s nothing “natural” about that. It’s an issue of socialization and exactly one of the reasons why this subculture is drawing scrutiny from the larger world. > [@](#): > > THis is a different issue to gamergate imo. That issue seems to be more about journalism and the game development industry. It no more “seems” that than the assertion that the Civil War was about states rights, not slavery. It’s disinformation and it’s deliberate. > [@](#): > > There is a legitimate complaint by gamers that an ideological movement is trying to take away the type of games they enjoy. No, this is not a legitimate complaint. Video games are simply being made subject to the same social criticisms that every other form of creative culture has long been subject to. Feminist criticism has not “taken away” misogynistic depictions in novels or films and it won’t in video games. What the critics are hoping for is diversity and options, including lowering the barriers to entry and hostility inherent in the industry against new perspectives. Even if they don’t get that, no cultural sector should expect to be protected from criticism. What this is about is a group of people who have been use to having a monopoly on the public discourse and reacting violently in fear of losing that monopoly. > [@](#): > > When this happens, rightly or wrongly an entire clusterf\*ck of passions and concerns will emerge. Some of them legitimate concerns, some of them not. Some gamergate arguments will be valid, some will descend into downright abuse against it’s percieved ideologue opponents. In my opinion the former is predominant over the latter in the gamergate movement. When the Civil Rights Movement threatened to affect the monopoly of political power held by white Southerners, there was a violent reaction. How do we view that in retrospect? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/997 "2014-10-17T21:50:29Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Sorry, im not about to read 20 pages of posts. > [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Fair enough if you dont care about the issue. Ethel, hold my calls! We gotta sign this kid! He’s a comedy genius! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/998 "2014-10-17T21:52:09Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > All it takes is for one central character(or PR firm who’s job it is to garner sympathetic stories) to collude with each journalist or editor. This is the way PR firms work. You have heard of these new fangled organizations called PR firms? Organizations that give information to journalists, that try to set the media agenda. You should read up on them, they are fascinating. This is just silly. PR costs money. What’s the business model behind pushing a “Death of the gamer” narrative? It’s hard enough to scrape together money to advertise indie games, let alone to find money to engineer some sort of weird crypto PR campaign to insult gamers. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/999 "2014-10-17T21:59:17Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Who said anything about all 6 or 7 journalists getting together? All it takes is for one central character(or PR firm who’s job it is to garner sympathetic stories) to collude with each journalist or editor. This is only collusion if they are all agreeing to commit fraud or a crime. In this case all you have are a series of articles that generally agree with each other. Journalists always talk about things going on in their fields of concentration, and they often talk with the same sources. Even if all these journalists were in a room together and discussed this issue together, this is not collusion or a problem with journalistic integrity. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/1000 "2014-10-17T22:02:22Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Just dont attempt to say that its been proven no collusion has taken place(just as I havent proven collusion). You lean towards the narrative you wish to believe; I shall lean towards mine. So you admit that you don’t have proof there was any collusion … you’re just going to assume that it happened and act like did, regardless. And you’ll just go ahead and assume that everyone else is doing the same. Honestly, this says more about you than it does ethics or journalism. **AND THEN …** The New Yorker published an article pointing out that those who are trying to silence game criticism are stunting the growth of the medium. > **[Gamergate: A Scandal Erupts in the Video-Game Community](https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/gamergate-scandal-erupts-video-game-community)** > > The content of video games has begun to expand beyond sports, racing, and warfare, but some gaming fans are intent on shutting down new perspectives. **Gamergate: A Scandal Erupts in the Video-Game Community** > [@](#): > > Those who wish to censor or expel certain creators and critics are often > avid fans of video games, but their views are antithetical to its virtues. At their best, video games promote empathy and understanding by allowing us to experience virtual life from another’s perspective. Those who stand against honest debate and dialogue may think that they are protecting a beloved pastime, but their actions compromise its vibrant future. Eurogamer editorializes: > **[We cannot let this become gaming culture](https://www.eurogamer.net/we-cannot-let-this-become-gaming-culture)** > > Organised abuse and threats of mass murder: this is the legacy of GamerGate, a movement that has forfeited any legitimacy it had. \*\* We cannot let this become gaming culture\*\* \*Organised abuse and threats of mass murder: this is the legacy of GamerGate. \* > [@](#): > > This is not to say that some people who have aligned themselves with GamerGate don’t have legitimate points of view. But at this stage, their association with it can only rob them of that legitimacy. What does GamerGate really stand for? It claims to oppose corruption in the games media. But its initial claims about Quinn’s relationship with a journalist were debunked and since then, to our knowledge, it has not turned up a single credible example. All it has proved is that many people in the games press and business know each other, speak to each other and share similar views. The only persistent thread to GamerGate is vehement disagreement with those views - the views of the so-called “social justice warrior” - which hold that improved diversity and social representation in the games industry and in game content are necessary for the long-term health of video games as a medium. > > At Eurogamer, we hold those views. We encourage debate, but we see no such thing arising from GamerGate. We condemn the deplorable harassment which threatens to chase a generation of women out of games and set the medium’s movement towards a more progressive and inclusive future back by a decade. We believe the harassment is inextricably linked with the GamerGate campaign, which, through its continuing inability to articulate a reasoned position or engage in constructive dialogue, has now forfeited its right to be considered a true campaign, a true movement. It is no more than a front for trolling and abuse. The Guardian has an excellent article about the human toll of Gamergate and emphasizes that moderates need to take a closer look at what’s going on under the Gamergate flag. > **[Brianna Wu and the human cost of Gamergate: 'every woman I know in the...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/17/brianna-wu-gamergate-human-cost)** > > We speak to game developer Brianna Wu about the threats that drove her from her home in another explosive week for Gamergate - and reflect on its damaging impact. By Keith Stuart > [@](#): > > **Banners and flags** > > I don’t think that everyone who uses Gamergate is evil, but moderates need to look at what is being done under, or within spitting distance of, its banner. Lives are being ruined and the world’s media is looking at gamers, just at a time when the medium was being taken seriously, and it is seeing its prejudices realised. Gamergate was front-page news in the New York Times when Sarkeesian had to cancel a talk over threats of a “massacre” (also dismissed as a “false flag” by Gamergate supporters); Cellan-Jones wrote on the BBC’s site that while he wouldn’t pick over the rights and wrongs of Gamergate (for the BBC is assiduous in not taking any sides in any debate), > > ``` > “a couple of things are clear. It started with attacks on a female developer and the journalists she knew, and has given rise to a whole lot more viciousness, most of it aimed at women who dare to raise their heads above the parapet.” > > ``` > > If a BBC correspondent states that, you can take it as fact. > > Earlier this week, Gear of War designer Cliff Bleszinzki blogged on this very issue. He wrote this: > > ``` > “We’re the gamers, the dorks. We’re the ones who were on our computers during prom. We’re the ones that were in the back of the lunch room who were playing D&D instead of tossing a football around on the quad. We were supposed to be the open, friendly ones, the ones who welcomed all into our wonderful geeky circle. > > “We’re not supposed to be a mob that’s storming the gates with our pitchforks and torches.” > > ``` > > It’s time for reasonable people to pull away. To form something else. To take everything they’ve learned about agitation and protest, and apply it in a very different way. Don’t have all this on your conscience. > > We need to create an industry in which people can question practices and conventions, but also where all are welcome and safe. For a start, however, we need to create an industry in which, whatever you think of their views, Quinn, Sarkeesian and Wu can go home. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596/1001 "2014-10-17T22:05:58Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > There’s nothing “natural” about that. It’s an issue of socialization and exactly one of the reasons why this subculture is drawing scrutiny from the larger world. > > It no more “seems” that than the assertion that the Civil War was about states rights, not slavery. It’s disinformation and it’s deliberate. > > No, this is not a legitimate complaint. Video games are simply being made subject to the same social criticisms that every other form of creative culture has long been subject to. > > Feminist criticism has not “taken away” misogynistic depictions in novels or films and it won’t in video games. What the critics are hoping for is diversity and options, including lowering the barriers to entry and hostility inherent in the industry against new perspectives. > > Even if they don’t get that, no cultural sector should expect to be protected from criticism. > > What this is about is a group of people who have been use to having a monopoly on the public discourse and reacting violently in fear of losing that monopoly. > > When the Civil Rights Movement threatened to affect the monopoly of political power held by white Southerners, there was a violent reaction. How do we view that in retrospect? I think the movie industry has been affected enough by ideological correctness for gamers to have legitimate concerns. To claim otherwise suggests you haven’t even bothered to read the headlines of the articles I posted. I’ll repost them for your convenience “‘Gamers’ don’t have to be your audience. ‘Gamers’ are over.” by Leigh Alexander (8/28, approx 10:28 AM): “The End of Gamers” by Dan Golding (8/28, no time, this possibly was posted before Alexander’s piece) “Gaming is Leaving ‘Gamers’ Behind’” by Joseph Bernstein (8/28, 3:29 PM) “The death of the ‘gamers’ and the women who ‘killed’ them” by Casey Johnson (8/28, 7:00 PM) “A Guide to Ending ‘Gamers’” by Devin Wilson (8/28, 7:57 PM) “We Might Be Witnessing The ‘Death of An Identity’” by Luke Plunkett (8/28, 8:00 PM) “This Guy’s Embarassing Relationship Drama Is Killing the ‘Gamer Identity’” by Mike Peark (8/29, no time) Again, read the common words in the headlines - “gamers”, “death”, “ending”, and more “death”. Do you still wish to claim these people do not wish to see an entire section of gaming community disappear? That gamers have no legitimate concerns? “When the Civil Rights Movement threatened to affect the monopoly of political power held by white Southerners, there was a violent reaction. How do we view that in retrospect?” Hhhhmmmm maybe that forced busing was wrong? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gamergate/697596.md?page=51)