# Games people are better at than computers **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 25, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-people-are-better-at-than-computers/682254 "2014-02-25T20:42:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-people-are-better-at-than-computers/682254/61 "2019-05-11T12:28:50Z")
I expect that what they found was something analogous to the Halting Problem. I don’t think the rules of M:tG are quite Turing-complete, but they may well be complex enough to make something like that an issue, anyway. Of course, that’ll only come up in extremely contrived corner cases that are unlikely to come up in any real game. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-people-are-better-at-than-computers/682254/62 "2019-05-11T20:01:59Z")
> [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](#): > > It’s amusing to see that the two first replies in this 5 years old thread are both obsolete by now. Yep. Boy did I underestimate the pace of AI development. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-people-are-better-at-than-computers/682254/63 "2019-05-12T00:38:15Z")
Oh, it should also be mentioned that the computers’ inability to conclusively solve M:tG does not imply that humans will always be better at it, because humans can’t conclusively solve it, either. It would still be theoretically possible (though still a long ways away) to create a computer better at it than a human. Note that by “better at it”, I mean at all aspects of the game: I wouldn’t be too surprised if you could take a simple deck like Relentless Rats or green zoo, and teach a computer to play it better than a human. But being able to construct a good deck, that’s another story. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-people-are-better-at-than-computers/682254/64 "2019-05-12T02:49:39Z")
Monopoly. A game with two roughly equally skilled players is already tedious. Against a computer it would be unbearable. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-people-are-better-at-than-computers/682254/65 "2019-05-12T03:20:26Z")
I assume no computer can win at Dance Dance Revolution. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-people-are-better-at-than-computers/682254/66 "2019-05-12T04:31:36Z")
“Not all missions can be solved with chess Deep Blue, someday you’ll understand that” - Al Gore ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-people-are-better-at-than-computers/682254/67 "2019-05-12T04:59:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I expect that what they found was something analogous to the Halting Problem. I don’t think the rules of M:tG are quite Turing-complete, but they may well be complex enough to make something like that an issue, anyway. > > Of course, that’ll only come up in extremely contrived corner cases that are unlikely to come up in any real game. You may find this article on Magic interesting. [https://arxiv.org/pdf/1904.09828.pdf](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1904.09828.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-people-are-better-at-than-computers/682254/68 "2019-05-12T05:36:13Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I assume no computer can win at Dance Dance Revolution. I’d like to see one of those Boston Dynamics robots try. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-people-are-better-at-than-computers/682254/69 "2019-05-12T12:28:34Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I’d like to see one of those Boston Dynamics robots try. Shit, I forgot about those backflipping bastards. Oh well. I for one, welcome our new robot overlords. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-people-are-better-at-than-computers/682254/70 "2019-05-12T18:38:13Z")
I’d like to see three or four different AIs cooperatively play…and win…a game of “Pandemic”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-people-are-better-at-than-computers/682254/71 "2019-05-12T22:00:23Z")
Yeah, **octopus** , that’s the one **Jophiel** linked, and which I’ve since read through. It’s exactly the halting problem: One of the official rules of Magic is that if the game ends up in an infinite loop, it’s a draw… but the problem is, there’s no general way to tell if a computer program is in an infinite loop, or if it’ll end eventually, just not yet. And someone figured out a way to implement a computer, capable of running an arbitrary program, in a Magic game, set up in such a way that _if_ the program eventually halts, then one player will win. Set up the game that way (which they found a way to do on the first turn, if you get just the right hand), and program it with something like the Goldbach conjecture whose truth we don’t yet know, and the game is over, but we don’t know if it’s a draw or a win. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-people-are-better-at-than-computers/682254.md?page=3)