# Games that are the best of their genre **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 10, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333 "2003-11-10T02:24:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/61 "2003-11-17T12:03:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Grousser \* > This kind of threads ever have a conclusion (winners)? It does now. Here’s the standings of the major categories, with the count of how many nominations they got. This is all nominees. The next post is the winners, with some editorial comments. FPS - Multiplayer 05 Goldeneye 05 Halo 03 Doom II 02 Unreal Tournament 01 Toy Commander 01 Tribes 1 01 Quake 3 Arena FPS - Single Player 07 Half Life (single player) 04 Doom II 03 Halo 02 Deus Ex 01 Perfect Dark (is this a multiplayer?) 01 Marathon 01 Battlefield 1942 RPG 06 Final Fantasy VII / VI 06 Planescape: Torment 05 Fallout / Two 03 Chrono Trigger 03 Baldur’s Gate 2 01 Wizardry 1 01 Arcanum 01 Xenogears 01 Suikoden 2 01 Xiang Jian Qi Xia Zhuan (Chinese) 01 Grandia II 01 Dragon Warrior 01 Neverwinter Nights 01 Earthbound Real-time Strategy 08 Starcraft: Broodwars 04 Age of Empires / 2 02 Warcraft II 02 Medieval Total War 01 Total Annihilation 01 Outpost 2 01 Rise of Nations 01 Command and Conquer: Red Alert 2 Turn-based Strategy 04 Civilization 2 / 3 03 Worms 02 X-Com 01 Warlords III 01 Heroes of Might & Magic II 01 Alpha Centauri 01 Moonbase Commander Racing 03 Mario-Kart 02 F-Zero 02 Gran Turismo 01 Daytona USA 2 01 San Francisco Rush / Rush 2 01 Porsche Unleashed (PC) 01 Rally Sport Challenge (XBox) Fighter 05 Soul Calibur 2 04 Street Fighter 2 / Alpha 2 01 King of Fighters 2002 01 Killer instinct 01 Toshinden 01 Tekken Tag 01 Super Smash Brothers Adventure 05 Grim Fandango 05 Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time / Link to the Past 02 The Longest Journey 02 Metroid Prime 01 Sam and Max 01 Curse of Monkey Island Horror 02 Silent Hill 02 Alone in the Dark 01 Eternal Darkness: Sanity’s Requiem MMORPG 02 Everquest 01 Final Fantasy XI 01 Shadowbane Platformer (3D) 05 Super Mario 64 02 Jak & Daxter 02 Ratchet & Clank Platformer (2D) 04 Super Metroid 03 Super Mario World 01 Wizards & Warriors 01 Ape Escape 01 Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 01 Yoshi’s Island (any panda on that island?) Humor 03 Sam & Max Hit the Road 01 Conker’s Bad Fur Day 01 You Don’t Know Jack: Movies 01 Turrican I/II Puzzle 03 Tetris 02 Lemmings 02 Chip’s Challenge 01 Bombuzal 01 Super Puzzle Fighter 2 01 Kuri Kuri Kururin 01 Chu Chu Rocket 01 The Incredible Machine Other Categories 02 Child rearing sim…Princess Maker 2 01 First Person Sneaker…Thief 1 01 Space Sim…Descent: Freespace (1 and 2) 01 Flying…Falcon 4 Honorable Mention (no category) 03 Star Control 2 03 Max Payne I & II 03 Grand Theft Auto 01 Rogue Spear 01 Diablo 01 Total War 01 Ground Control 01 Populous ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/62 "2003-11-17T12:40:37Z")
**First Person Shooters** This category was split into multi-player and single-player, which I personally feel is ridiculous. Being a good multiplayer platform is what _defines_ a FPS; campaign mode is **always** and **only** warmup for deathmatch. Online deathmatch. Period. One person nominated Goldeneye as the best multiplayer FPS, while another person named Goldeneye as best FPS, and specifically nominated Halo as the best multiplayer FPS. So what’s the deal? I’ve never played it. Is Goldeneye multiplayer or not? The winners are **Half Life** , **Halo** , and **Goldeneye** , though Half Life is one-player only. (Thus, IMO, making it suck.) Honorable Mention goes to **Doom II** and **Unreal Tournament**. **Role Playing Games** I don’t play these, so all you get is a tally. The winners are **Final Fantasy VII / VI** , **Planescape: Torment** , and **Fallout / Two**. Honorable Mention goes to **Chrono Trigger** and **Baldur’s Gate 2**. **Real-time Strategy** I play these, and know the genre well. I’ve heard good things about Rise of Nations, but haven’t played it yet. The clear winner is **Starcraft: Broodwars** , which is so good it hurts. Honorable Mention goes to **Age of Empires / 2** , which is just as good (IMO), but takes far too long to advance up the tech tree, esp. when compared to Starcraft. AoE is much deeper in terms of resource variety. **Turn-based Strategy** The winners are **Civilization 2 / 3** and **Worms**. Are you guys for real? Worms? Never heard of it… Honorable Mention goes to **X-Com**. **Racing** You people make me want to vomit. The winner is **Mario-Kart** , because we apparently live in bizarro world. Honorable Mention goes to **F-Zero** and **Gran Turismo**. **Fighter** The winners are **Soul Calibur 2** and **Street Fighter 2 / Alpha 2**. **Adventure** I don’t play these. The winners are **Grim Fandango** and **Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time**. Honorable Mention goes to **The Longest Journey** and **Metroid Prime**. What is Metroid Prime, anyway? It was nominated for three different categories. **Horror** The winners are **Silent Hill** and **Alone in the Dark**. **MMORPG** **Everquest**. Shocker. **Platformers** I don’t play these. I am confused by the titles; Mario appears in both 2D and 3D, so just refer to my previous post with the actual rankings. (Someone wrote left to right scroller…that is a 2D platformer, btw.) **Puzzle** The winner is **Tetris** , with Honorable Mention for **Lemmings** and **Chip’s Challenge**. And finally, there were some nominees that do not enjoy a well defined genre. So Honorable Mentions go out to: **Grand Theft Auto / Vice City** **Max Payne I / II** **Star Control 2** Basically, every game mentioned in this post is supposed to be phenomenal. If you haven’t played any in a genre you like, consider it for your Christmas list. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/63 "2003-11-17T12:47:02Z")
I just realized that Total War is missing a vote in the “other” category. That bumps it up to honorable mention for RTS games. I assume that the 3 people who voted for it have played and mastered both Starcraft and AoE, and feel that Total War is superior. I personally find that hard to believe. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/64 "2003-11-19T14:26:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by \*\*Ellis Dee \*\* > … **First Person Shooters** > This category was split into multi-player and single-player, which I personally feel is ridiculous. Being a good multiplayer platform is what _defines_ a FPS; campaign mode is **always** and **only** warmup for deathmatch. Online deathmatch. Period. … FPS is _not_ all about the deathmatch. half life, aliens vs predators, deux ex, system shock etc are fine examples. if you don’t understand this there is nothing more to be said. > [@](#): > > … **Real-time Strategy** > The clear winner is **Starcraft: Broodwars** , which is so good it hurts. … i can only agree. it warms my heart to know that none of the thousand c&c games even come close to compare. > [@](#): > > … **Turn-based Strategy** > The winners are **Civilization 2 / 3** and **Worms**. Are you guys for real? Worms? Never heard of it… > > Honorable Mention goes to **X-Com**. … x-com and civilization is so different i don’t see how it is fair to put them under the same category. we either need more categories or a different system all together. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/65 "2003-11-19T15:37:52Z")
RPG - Diablo 2X Lord of Destruction Turn-Based - Heroes of Might & Magic IV Baseball Sim - Out of the Park 5 That’s pretty much all I play. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/66 "2003-11-19T16:09:13Z")
FPS: ‘No One Lives Forever’ (but it’s the only FPS I’ve played all the way through). I believe the hubby likes ‘Thief’ and ‘Deus ex’ Strategy: I’ve always loved the ‘Civs’ RPG: Baldur’s Gate 1/2 and then Fallout 1/2 (this is a second only because Fallout keeps crashing my computer) Other: ‘The Sims’, sadly. 😉 robertliguori: I have played the BG series, the Fallout series and attempted ‘Planescape Torment’. I actually bought Fallout and P:T because I loved the BG series, so I think I went about the games in the wrong order. 🙂 When I play a RPG I like to immerse myself in the game world, in the people I meet and in the quests I undertake. I like to put myself in the mind of my player character. 🙂 It was very easy to do so in Fallout and BG. In P:T I couldn’t. However I tried, I couldn’t get inside the mind of this strange looking man to get into the magic of the game. As a girl, it seems I enjoy the roleplay experience more playing a girl. This is not to say I didn’t try, I tried to ‘get into’ the game for hours, but I couldn’t to the same degree as the other two series. _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/67 "2003-11-19T17:37:10Z")
Have I posted to this thread yet? May as well: FPS Multiplayer: Halo FPS Single Player: Half-Life RPG: Knights of the Old Republic RTS: Total Annihilation Turn-Based: Civilization III Racing: Need For Speed Hot Pursuit Adventure: Grim Fandago Sports Sim: Out of the Park Baseball 5 Sports Action: NHL 98 Space Sim: TIE Fighter Flight Combat Sim: Red Baron Economic Simulation: SimCity Board-Style War Game: V For Victory: Velikiye Luki MMORPG: EverQuest Puzzle: Tetris ---
**Author:** ![kka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kka)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/68 "2003-11-19T18:55:24Z")
Ratchet & Clank. ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/69 "2003-11-19T19:50:59Z")
Someone earlier said Halo had lackluster enemy AI, and it makes me wonder if he was playing the same game as I was. The Covenant on Legendary mode are absolutely _vicious_, and demonstrate the best (and more importantly, the most intuitively implemented) use of AI I’ve ever seen. Seeing them execute flanking maneuvers, take cover to recharge their shields, flee when the leader of their squad is killed, and break out into close-range brawling when cornered has become so commonplace to me that every other shooter I’ve played in the last few years just feels dull by comparison. I’ll agree that the Flood weren’t overly impressive, AI-wise, but they still seemed more “alive” than the enemy units in most of the FPS games I’ve played. I’ve never seen them do silly things like stand there stupidly while compatriots standing immediately next to them are being blown to hell or run headlong into walls, for example. So yeah. No surprise that Halo gets top honors for FPS in my book (single player for the aforementioned AI and some of the slickest in-game cutscene animation ever, multiplayer for the bliss that is 16-player CTF on four adjacent Xboxes). Other nominations: Fighter: Soul Calibur 2 2D Platformer: Super Mario Bros. 3D Platformer: Super Mario 64 RPG: Knights of the Old Republic RTS: Total Annihilation (Brood War? Don’t make me laugh… ;)) Puzzle: Tetris Rail-Based Shooter: Tie between the original Starfox and Panzer Dragoon Orta Racing: Mario Kart 64 ---
**Author:** ![No\_Disguise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9f8e36/32.png) [@No\_Disguise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_Disguise)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/70 "2003-11-19T21:01:43Z")
FPS: Quake I can’t believe I’m the first to say this. While the Unreal tournaments, Quake III Arena, have pretty graphics, and are exciting, they seem dumbed down compared with Quake. IMO, Quake was the pinnacle of FPSs. The single player levels play very, very well in multiplayer mode, and the multiplayer specific levels play infinitely better than anything I have ever played in Death Match mode in any other game. It seems like every game that has come since gave up trying to design a better game and resorted to designing better-looking, or more realistic ones. Fuck realistic! The amount of time that evidently went into the design of the maps in Quake makes Unreal Tournament look like it was thrown together by a bunch of retarded kindergarteners. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/71 "2003-11-19T22:34:06Z")
As somebody who plays far too many computer games, I should chime in. **FPS Single player** Would System Shock 2 fall into this category? If it does, it’s far and away the best I’ve played. I like a lot of the games that straddle this category like Thief 1 and 2 and Deus Ex. **FPS multiplayer** Halflife. Well, the mods actually. There are so many good ones, though I consider Counter Strike one of the weaker ones. **RPG** I’ve never played Planescape, so it shouldn’t surprise anybody that I’m going with Fallout 2. It has everything an RPG needs: there are multiple ways to solve most puzzles; your actions have an effect on NPC reactions to you; the system works well; and the plot is good. One factor I like is that character development is kept on a reasonable scale. You don’t start the game with 20 hit points and finish with ten thousand. Perhaps the only better game in this respect is Darklands. **RTS** I’m not a big fan of the genre, but Homeworld was good. **Turn based strategy** Alpha Centauri. It falls right between Civilization 2 and 3, combining the best of both worlds. **Turn based tactical** X-Com. Yes, there is a strategic element, but the tactical element is the thrust of the game. Jagged Alliance is a close second. **Horror** Silent Hill 3. I’ve already given System Shock 2 the nod elsewhere, but it deserves mention here too. **Humor** Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. You know, the old text game. It’s available at [http://www.douglasadams.com/creations/infocomjava.html](http://www.douglasadams.com/creations/infocomjava.html). **Flight sim** IL-2. **Fighting game** Bushido Blade. Are there are any other fighting games that forgo the health bar in favor of wounds and killing blows? I really like the game, but the graphics are so dated I have a tough time getting my friends excited about it. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/72 "2003-11-19T22:58:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ellis Dee \* > Here’s the standings of the major categories, with the count of how many nominations they got. This is all nominees. I didn’t see my **Star Raiders** props anywhere… :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/73 "2003-11-19T23:02:07Z")
The best shoot-em-up ever was and stil is Llamatron by Jeff Minter. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/74 "2003-11-20T03:25:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > I didn’t see my **Star Raiders** props anywhere… :mad: My bad. It would be far too embarassing to admit how much time it took me to compose that post. After a long while, I exercised editorial control over single nominations that were never seconded. Also, I felt the list might get too long, which it did anyway, thus the second “winners” post. Keep the nominations coming, but please please don’t double up. If you want to nominate a different game or genre, have at it. If we get a bunch more people with nominations, I’ll do another cleanup on the next page. Clarifications on the fuzzy categories would be nice. If you voted for a FPS, but didn’t specify single or multiplayer, and I personally know that it supports both, I included the vote in both categories. Playing FPS games single player is like playing RTS games single player. You’re missing out on most of the appeal. Starcraft and AoE were great and all, but until I played them on Battlenet, Kali and IGZ, (pickup games, clan games, and tournaments) I did not understand what the games were intended to be. The same could be said for Doom / 2 and Halo. While the campaign mode in Halo is phenomenal, the real joy (and satisfaction) is playing against your buddies, (as I usually do), or with your buddies against online competition (as we occasionally do.) Though I admit I’ve completed Halo on every difficulty, and more than once on the harder settings. (And a huge shout out to Halo for coop mode.) But hey, if you only like single player, that’s cool. The more gamers the better, IMO. Some people don’t like crafting effective build orders or rush strategies. And others don’t like getting picked apart by frag gods. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/75 "2003-11-20T08:15:48Z")
**Ellis Dee** your example of starcraft is spot on, RTS games really shine (those that don’t are simply not balanced) when they are played online and against real people. however, some FPS are never meant to be deathmatches. take half life for example, this was _the_ game of the time because it introduced scripted response (if memory serves) or aliens vs predators which did very well in placing the player in the marine’s boots or system shock which had very good reviews for various reasons; these games were never designed for the deathmatches. current online play does not enhance any of these ‘immersive’ aspects at all, unless they re-introduce co-operative campaign play. that would be something else. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/76 "2003-11-22T08:20:03Z")
They had coop campaign mode? I thought Halo was the first to introduce that… ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/77 "2003-11-22T16:39:11Z")
not sure if they’re the first but hexen (or was it heretic?) had that. _blink_ halo has a coop campaign mode? maybe i should take a closer look, i’ve been looking for an FPS like this. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by \*\*KnightNavro \*\* > … One factor I like is that character development is kept on a reasonable scale. You don’t start the game with 20 hit points and finish with ten thousand. Perhaps the only better game in this respect is Darklands. … yes darklands, i liked how you could be invincible 1v1 but a group of thugs surrounding you can hack you to pieces anyway. there had always been something about games that made you godlike as you approach the end of the story that bothered me, i don’t know why. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/78 "2003-11-22T17:08:50Z")
I should point out that Halo’s co-op campaign mode is on the original Xbox version only so far. The PC version does not yet contain co-op campaign play, though it is rumored that Gearbox (who did the port to PC) will be working on adding this in to a future patch. FISH ---
**Author:** ![aoty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9e8a1a/32.png) [@aoty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aoty)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/79 "2003-11-22T18:40:01Z")
Oh, I love these kinds of threads 🙂 Fighting: Virtual Fighter 4 Evolution (PS2) Strategy: X-Com (PC) RPG (console): Final Fantasy III (US- SNES) RPG (pc): Wizardry 8 Platformer (3d): Mario 64 (N64) Platformer (2d): Yoshi’s Island (SNES) Adventure: Metroid Prime (NGC) FPS: Half Life (PC) Shooter: Giares (Genesis) Driving: Gran Turismo 3 (PS2) Puzzle: Tetris (all) ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333/80 "2003-11-24T08:46:23Z")
thxs **Fish** , aww what is it about co-op play that it is featured so rarely in FPS? am i only one of a few that enjoy going through missions with a friend? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-are-the-best-of-their-genre/212333.md?page=5)