# Games that let the player feel guilty **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 25, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372 "2012-07-25T19:38:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/41 "2012-07-26T03:51:14Z")
A bit silly, but I think the guiltiest I ever felt about a video game was playing Sim City way, way back in the day. It might have been the original, but I think it was probably Sim City 2000 (released in 1993, when tacking “2000” onto something still made it sound futuristic). Anyway, one time I loaded up a pre-made city. Very large, well-organized, and so on. I used it to try and learn the game better, tweaking this, trying back. About an hour later, I sat there watching the city burn and crumble as a result of my incompetence, and I felt really, really bad. Those poor sims. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/42 "2012-07-26T03:54:42Z")
Oh, and while I’m thinking of things, _Deus Ex: Human Revolution_ forces you to be both stealthy and peaceful. You get experience bonuses for various things, and get the most if you use a non-lethal takedown, and even more if on 2 enemies simultaneously. So you get all these cool guns that you don’t want to use, except on the very “meh” bosses. This game didn’t have a “morality meter” like a lot of them, so it _mostly_ a #5. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/43 "2012-07-26T04:05:26Z")
In Deus Ex: Human Revolution there’s a part whereYour pilot has crashed the helicopter and she’s urging you to leave and complete your mission. The protagonist’s dialog implies that yeah, he understands and he’s going to go do just that. But I couldn’t leave her behind. So as waves of enemies came pouring in from all directions I just stayed there at the helicopter, blasting the shit out of all of them. I nearly ran like a little girl when a giant mechanical spider showed up but I wouldn’t leave the helicopter. Well, I wound up killing them all and saving her, which now that I’ve looked into it, is apparently optional. I could’ve just continued as the game’s dialog (both hers and the player character’s) implied was appropriate and never known it was possible to save her life. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/44 "2012-07-26T04:06:52Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > \<_\< \>_\> > > \>_\> \<_\< > > I feel guilty when playing… > > \>\_\> > > …Pokemon. \<\_\< > > Not every time one of my Mons faints - usually I just get annoyed with being beaten. > > No, occasionally I’ll be up against a boss whose Mons are diabolical enough to break a type advantage. > > So, after levelling up a bit, I’ll rearrange my party…put one in at the start who’s meant to faint after nickle-and-diming the boss down to the point my type-advantaged Mon can finish it. > > And I feel TERRIBLE about that sacrifice, every time I do it, even though it’s the only way to progress. Or you could just GRIND MOAR. Anything in Pokemon can be beat by a significant level advantage, even if you’re fighting that one dick who has a level 50 Hydreigon with perfect IVs and EVs. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/45 "2012-07-26T04:10:10Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > In Deus Ex: Human Revolution there’s a part whereYour pilot has crashed the helicopter and she’s urging you to leave and complete your mission. The protagonist’s dialog implies that yeah, he understands and he’s going to go do just that. But I couldn’t leave her behind. So as waves of enemies came pouring in from all directions I just stayed there at the helicopter, blasting the shit out of all of them. I nearly ran like a little girl when a giant mechanical spider showed up but I wouldn’t leave the helicopter. Well, I wound up killing them all and saving her, which now that I’ve looked into it, is apparently optional. I could’ve just continued as the game’s dialog (both hers and the player character’s) implied was appropriate and never known it was possible to save her life. That was pretty cool 🙂 I did the same thing as you.. , saving her. Then I played again and let her die, and felt bad, so reloaded my previous save and worked hard to save her again 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/46 "2012-07-26T04:15:04Z")
I almost forgot mine. I’m not going to mention Demon’s Souls since the guilt scenario is required. However, there’s Dark Souls which has a similar situation which is… completely optional, and thus makes it a lot more powerful. In the Painted World there’s a half-dragon half-human “abomination” that was exiled there. She’s kind of a nice lady, she just wants you to go home and leave her alone. She won’t attack you until you attack her or loot her room. But if you do loot her room, you can just kill yourself so you have the loot and don’t have to hurt her at all. Mind you, “killing yourself” isn’t a cop-out like it would be in most games, it’s an actual part of the **game world** , you’re cursed with immortality. Killing yourself to spare a life is a perfectly believable action to take given how many times your character has died before and will die in the future. She’s pretty much a faceroll boss too, which will probably just make you feel even worse. Oh, and you can’t just take it back and reload, Dark Souls saves after pretty much any action you take. You feel bad about it? Too bad, live with it. Until a New Game+ at least. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/47 "2012-07-26T04:18:13Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > In Deus Ex: Human Revolution there’s a part whereYour pilot has crashed the helicopter and she’s urging you to leave and complete your mission. The protagonist’s dialog implies that yeah, he understands and he’s going to go do just that. But I couldn’t leave her behind. So as waves of enemies came pouring in from all directions I just stayed there at the helicopter, blasting the shit out of all of them. I nearly ran like a little girl when a giant mechanical spider showed up but I wouldn’t leave the helicopter. Well, I wound up killing them all and saving her, which now that I’ve looked into it, is apparently optional. I could’ve just continued as the game’s dialog (both hers and the player character’s) implied was appropriate and never known it was possible to save her life. Me too. The one part of the game where I went bloodthirsty. Also, there’s an Achievement for doing that, if you go for those. Also, if you save Malik, she comes back later to wipe out some crazed guys instead of fighting/sneaking past them. It’s right before you have to get into the rocket-thingy to leave Omega Ranch. I liked her snarky rapport. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/48 "2012-07-26T05:45:54Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Or you could just GRIND MOAR. Yeah, no. What prompted me to start doing it was that I essentially couldn’t level, since I was so overleveled for the areas I could access. Hell, that was why I was able to do the sacrifice instead of just having my whole party wiped. (Nimbasa gym in Black/White. Her fucking Emolgas. Cheapass bastards, even without the bogus type combo.) ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/49 "2012-07-26T05:52:47Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > Yeah, no. > > What prompted me to start doing it was that I essentially couldn’t level, since I was so overleveled for the areas I could access. Hell, that was why I was able to do the sacrifice instead of just having my whole party wiped. > > (Nimbasa gym in Black/White. Her fucking Emolgas. Cheapass bastards, even without the bogus type combo.) Lightweight, in Gen IV my girlfriend ground up a Piplup to Empoleon BEFORE SHE TALKED TO THE PROFESSOR, JUST TO SEE WHAT HE’D SAY. No, I wouldn’t ever recommend trying to do that, I think it took her 28 in-game hours. (For the record, he said something along the lines of “Oh, I see Empoleon has evolved already! Would you like to give Empoleon a nickname?”) ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/50 "2012-07-26T12:01:48Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I very much enjoy hamfisted “ethical” choices that are handled completely wrong though - like that one quest in _Dragon Age:Origins_ where the kid is possessed by a demon. The game designers obviously wanted/expected the player to empathize with his mother and/or him, since the evil he does really isn’t his fault… but the mother is written and acted like such a _complete, selfish bitch_ throughout the whole ordeal, it ends up being more self-righteously satisfying to resolve the quest in a way that results in her death. Or both their deaths, if you’re feeling especially vindictive. Hated her. 😛 However, you may get the option to resolve it without any death, if you’re so inclined, and depending on what you’ve done previously.If you free the Tower first and save the mages, you can run back there to ask for help in opening a portal without having to kill anyone to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/51 "2012-07-26T13:56:40Z")
As always, there’s an XKCD for this topic: [xkcd: FPS Mod](http://xkcd.com/873/) (make sure to read the alt-text) ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/52 "2012-07-26T17:38:03Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > You want to talk about guilt in videogames? I’ve never felt more guilt than when I incinerated the weighted companion cube in Portal. > [@Ethilrist](#): > > I practically cried the first time I had to kill Griswold in Diablo 2, but hey. Dude’s a zombie. Going way way back, it reminds me of how upset I was to realize there was no way around sacrificing Floyd the cheerful, helpful robot as part of the solution to Infocom’s _Planetfall_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/53 "2012-07-26T17:46:54Z")
I’m surprised no one has mentioned **Shadow of the Colossus** yet. The game is a series of boss battles. However, as you kill them one by one, you start to question why you’re doing this. Obviously in game terms you have to do it to get to the end, but there’s no rationale for it. These big creatures are just off minding their own business and you have to track them down and murder them. I found the whole premise so depressing eventually I stopped before I reached the final boss. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/54 "2012-07-26T18:10:54Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > In Deus Ex, you had several options for how lethal you wanted to play your character. Several of the zones involved getting past a bunch of people who were essentially innocent–US Navy members guarding a supertanker that’s owned and operated by the bad guys. Killing them felt kind of like the wrong thing to do on the first few run-throughs, so I played the game once with as few kills as possible, using a baton to knock people unconscious, or a drug dart. The game worked really well that way, and I didn’t have to kill a single one of the US soldiers. > > [spoiler]Until I had to sink the supertanker with them on it, of course. I felt pretty bad about that. > > And then I went on to nuke Area 51 and killed HUNDREDS of scientists, just for a temporary tactical advantage on the bad guys there, and the whole “let’s not kill people” mode kind of went out the window.[/spoiler] > > And, I practically cried the first time I had to kill Griswold in Diablo 2, but hey. Dude’s a zombie. I liked the idea of knocking them unconscious but I didn’t see the point because they kept laying there just like they were dead. BTW apparently the people you kill on the tanker don’t count because I’ve come across at least one “no kill” walkthrough. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/55 "2012-07-26T18:22:04Z")
A guy I used to know claimed he would play Oblivion and slaughter everybody he met. I’m tempted to try it just to see what would happen but I probably won’t because I always like playing the good guy. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/56 "2012-07-26T19:23:14Z")
I would like to credit the FAQ writers on GameFAQS page for Fallout 2 for understanding that evil != kill everyone. So many players try an “evil” playthrough, which means slaughtering villagers in there mind. Killing without meaning is stupid. It’s more delicious, à la Fallout 3, to slap a slave collar on them and make them do your bidding. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/57 "2012-07-26T19:34:34Z")
In Dragon Age 2, don’t have your character fall in love with Anders. No matter what you do at the end, you’ll feel guilty. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/58 "2012-07-26T20:32:12Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > In Dragon Age 2, don’t have your character fall in love with Anders. > > No matter what you do at the end, you’ll feel guilty. I also felt a bit guilty when I sold Fenris back into slavery. He took it pretty well, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/59 "2012-07-26T22:17:04Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > A guy I used to know claimed he would play Oblivion and slaughter everybody he met. I’m tempted to try it just to see what would happen but I probably won’t because I always like playing the good guy. As I heard it, one of the recurring design questions when coding _Fallout:New Vegas_ was this: “Imagine the player character’s head is replaced with a flamethrower. Can he still complete the main plot ?” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372/60 "2012-07-26T22:31:25Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > I liked the idea of knocking them unconscious but I didn’t see the point because they kept laying there just like they were dead. BTW apparently the people you kill on the tanker don’t count because I’ve come across at least one “no kill” walkthrough. Contrarily, some of the people you knock unconscious are counted as dead: the NATO trooper at the top of the Statue of Liberty (knock him out so you can steal his assault rifle early in the game and your boss says “Say, one of the troops turned up dead… we think it might have been friendly fire… know anything about that?”), the pimp in the alley outside the hotel (stun him and everybody talks about how you killed him). Also, when you complete the first statue of liberty mission without killing a single person, your brother talks about how “you killed a lot of people tonight” and I’m all, “Oh yeah? Name two.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-that-let-the-player-feel-guilty/629372.md?page=4)