# Games without rules. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 25, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318 "2009-04-25T15:51:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/1 "2009-04-25T15:51:07Z")
I’ve been having deep discussions again. A lot of people, it seems, romanticize the idea of not having rules (libertarians). I used to think so too, till I got old and had one of my many epiphanies. What I had _really_ wanted was less rules, but just until somebody bigger came along and took _my_ ball. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/2 "2009-04-25T16:16:03Z")
I thought this was going to be about Calvinball. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/3 "2009-04-25T16:21:22Z")
Or Mornington Crescent. Or maybe Fizzbin. Or 1000 Blank White Cards. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/4 "2009-04-25T16:42:52Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I thought this was going to be about Calvinball. It was, but I had a “senior moment” right after typing the title, so I just winged it. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/5 "2009-04-25T16:43:59Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Or Mornington Crescent. Or maybe Fizzbin. > Or 1000 Blank White Cards. It was, but I had a “senior moment” right after typing the title, so I just winged it. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/6 "2009-04-25T16:46:41Z")
Is there an echo in here? My son and I play Nookball. It’s played in a living room and it is basically volley ball using an old Beanie Baby and no net. Those are about the only rules. Everything else we make up as it goes along, usually to the rulemaker’s advantage. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/7 "2009-04-25T16:54:18Z")
> [@Amp](#): > > Is there an echo in here? There was, but I had a “senior moment” right after typing the title, so I just winged it. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/8 "2009-04-25T18:54:41Z")
Damn. So where did that echo go? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/9 "2009-04-25T18:55:35Z")
Games without rules is like peanut butter without jelly. Or a dvd without a player. Ok, I admit it, I got nuthin’. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/10 "2009-04-25T20:52:50Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Damn. So where did that echo go? I hired a duck. We all know what that means. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/11 "2009-04-25T22:24:00Z")
I once played an actual game without rules…at the start., at least. Everyone starts the game with a predefinite amount of randomly colored tokens. Each token is worth 1 point, initially. Each player is also given a hand of N cards, each with a rule written on it. Things like “all players take one token from their left neighbour” or “until this law is repealed, red tokens are worth two points”, or even silly stuff like “from then on, all votes must be done with the left hand or you must throw a token back into the pot”. On each player’s turn, he would propose a law from his/her hand, to be voted on secretly by all participants, until the “End game” law is drawn and the game immediately ends. Amazingly fun game, esp. played with lots of people. Now if I could only remember its name… HA ! Found it, thanks Google : [Animocrazy | Board Game | BoardGameGeek](http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/542) As you were. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/12 "2009-04-25T22:35:23Z")
Maybe I should say that I meant “game” as a metaphor for “life”. A couple of the ppl I was discussing this with are libertarians. We wern’t exactly talking politics, more like rules (laws). ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/13 "2009-04-25T23:39:28Z")
Calvinball needs to be an Olympic sport, that’d be worth watching… That, or Brokkian-Ultra-Cricket ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/14 "2009-04-25T23:56:37Z")
I’m all in favor of rules, as long as I’m in favor of them. Honestly, we need rules, maybe even laws. Not because we are naturally mindless wild creatures that would run around murdering and pillaging without them, but because they make interaction much easier. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/15 "2009-04-25T23:57:23Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > Calvinball needs to be an Olympic sport, that’d be worth watching… > > That, or Brokkian-Ultra-Cricket Okay, that’ll work. Like I said, a metaphor. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/16 "2009-04-26T04:04:28Z")
**mangeorge** : Have you heard of The Question Game? Does someone else want to explain the rules of The Question Game? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/17 "2009-04-26T04:16:05Z")
There’s also [The Game](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)). I just lost. ---
**Author:** ![Baggins111](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@Baggins111](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baggins111)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/18 "2009-04-26T06:19:09Z")
Games without rules… Hell, I thought you were talking about me and my fiancee. ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/19 "2009-04-26T06:52:22Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > There’s also [The Game](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)). > > I just lost. Apparently, I just lost. I didn’t even know I was playing. I have a favorite game without rules. Or, rather, game with one rule. It’s called murderball. Seriously. It’s played in shallow water, usually waist-high to chest-high, and it’s helpful if there’s a soft, sandy surface under the water. There are two teams and a ball, and the object is to keep the other team from getting the ball. This is accomplished, usually, by passing the ball to ones teammates, and incapacitating other players with various tackles, holds, etc. If the other team has the ball, you can (and are encouraged to) wrestle it out that player’s possession. The one rule is: thou shalt not do anything that seriously hurts anyone. It’s a really fun game. There is no score, and anyone who has fun wins. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318/20 "2009-04-26T14:39:49Z")
I’m a professional game designer, and I’m in the process of writing a book about game design that addresses just this point. Johan Huizinga, the dutch cultural historian, defined play like this: > [@](#): > > _“A voluntary activity or occupation executed within certain fixed limits of time and place, according to rules freely accepted but absolutely binding, having its aim in itself and accompanied by a feeling of tension, joy, and the consciousness that is different from ordinary life.”_ I’ve boiled his definition down to something a little pithier: **“Play is free movement within a system of constraints.”** Too much freedom is confusing. Too little freedom is boring. Play only exists when a balance is struck. All play begins with the construction of a rule set, and ends when the rules expire. [QUOTE=mangeorge] Maybe I should say that I meant “game” as a metaphor for “life”. [/quote] It doesn’t even need to be a metaphor. Play emerges spontaneously in day-to-day life when the conditions are right, even in serious circumstances like politics and war. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/games-without-rules/494318.md?page=2)