# Gammon vs. ham **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [November 24, 2024, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731 "2024-11-24T22:03:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/21 "2024-11-25T09:07:41Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Its still in use in Aboriginal Australian English in that same sense of something being nonsense, or someone lying or trying to deceive you. It’s interesting that ‘spam’ has come to occupy a somewhat-overlapping place. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/22 "2024-11-25T09:28:47Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > American, here. My only context for the use of “gammon” was as a synonym for “nonsense.” So, like “baloney”. Are preserved meats inherently nonsensical? ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/23 "2024-11-25T11:00:41Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Mostly, but somewhat loosely. I would say it’s pretty definitive. Gammon is basically cured (like bacon) but uncooked. Ham is the same joint, but cooked. It’s saltiness varies widely, and it can be bought smoked or unsmoked. Just like bacon. Ham can be cold or hot, but either way it’s cooked. Note that [Nigella’s recipe for slow-cooked ‘ham’](https://www.nigella.com/recipes/slow-cooked-black-treacle-ham), starts with a joint of gammon. > [@Mangetout](#): > > Yeah, it’s more specifically the kind of people who rant to the point of being red-faced and breathless about their right-wing views (or sometimes just those who get exercised about whatever problem-du-jour is in the Daily Mail). That and the fact they tend to be fat and bold. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/24 "2024-11-25T11:26:03Z")
And - by common repute - wear red trousers to match the face. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/25 "2024-11-25T11:30:47Z")
The traditional distinction between gammon and ham was that gammon was cured as part of a side of bacon, while ham was cured as a separate joint. Nowadays, as said, the difference is that gammon is sold uncooked, whereas ham is cooked. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/26 "2024-11-25T11:40:31Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I would say it’s pretty definitive. OK, but like many a definition, it has plentiful exceptions; you can buy cooked gammon on the rotisserie/hot counter of supermarkets that have one of those, and you can buy cold, cooked gammon in whole or sliced form, and you can buy a ‘ham joint’ that will require cooking at home. Which is why I say, mostly, but somewhat loosely. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/27 "2024-11-25T16:06:24Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I particularly liked this bit: That is a good one! > [@Alessan](#): > > So, like “baloney”. Are preserved meats inherently nonsensical? Inherently untrustworthy, maybe? > [@SanVito](#): > > I would say it’s pretty definitive. Gammon is basically cured (like bacon) but uncooked. Ham is the same joint, but cooked. It’s saltiness varies widely, and it can be bought smoked or unsmoked. Just like bacon. Ham can be cold or hot, but either way it’s cooked. This has got to depend on where you are. Or possibly on who you buy your meat from. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/28 "2024-11-25T17:31:24Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > If you wanna try it I believe you can buy slices of pre-cooked country ham that are sliced(might say biscuit slices) and shrink wrapped close to where summer sausage and that stuff is kept. It’s chewy. Even easier is Waffle House if there’s one near you. Two menu staples are city ham and eggs and country ham and eggs, the latter being more expensive. Like you said, it’s chewy – they give you a steak knife to use on it but not for the city ham. [![](https://www.wafflehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/country-hameggs-breakfast@2x-2.jpg) ](https://www.wafflehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/country-hameggs-breakfast@2x-2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/29 "2024-11-25T18:17:09Z")
Silly old sausage ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/30 "2024-11-25T18:21:19Z")
Just hot-doggin’ ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/31 "2024-11-25T18:36:25Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > OK, but like many a definition, it has plentiful exceptions Like a sonnet. It has 14 lines, except when it doesn’t. It has a set rhyme scheme, except when it doesn’t. It is written in iambic pentameter, except when it isn’t. I think most definitions have exceptions, but if they are good, they give you a sense of the thing. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/32 "2024-11-25T20:25:07Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Its still in use in Aboriginal Australian English in that same sense of something being nonsense, or someone lying or trying to deceive you. > > Its attested as far back as 1828 and still in common use. We don’t have that contemporary English meaning. That is interesting! (There must be plenty of dissertations on the way Commonwealth nations’ use of English has diverged over the decades.) > [@Mangetout](#): > > I particularly liked this bit: > > > _‘It’s offensive to call people whose reactionary apoplexy makes them go pink-faced “gammons”. The correct term is “people of choler”.’_ I join @thorny_locust in commending this. Outstanding! > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > So, like “baloney”. Are preserved meats inherently nonsensical? > > Inherently untrustworthy, maybe? Sounds like a reasonable explanation for the usage. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/33 "2024-11-26T16:43:42Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > In general (with exceptions, I’m sure) ham is a cold deli meat for sandwiches, salads, buffets etc As a kid growing up in Pittsburgh, we always bought deli ham from a chain called **Isaly’s**. It was specifically **chipped-chopped ham**. My mom would heat it in some Isaly’s barbecue sauce and serve it on a bun. These were called barbecue ham sandwiches. As an adult I was surprised to find out it was a local thing. > **[Chipped chopped ham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipped_chopped_ham)** > > Chipped chopped ham or chipped ham is a processed ham luncheon meat made from chopped ham. Chopped ham is a mixture of ham chunks and trimmings and seasonings, ground together and then packaged into loaves. By chipping or shaving the meat loaf against a commercial meat slicer blade, the resultant thinly sliced product has a different texture and flavor compared to thickly sliced ham. In western Pennsylvania, northern West Virginia and eastern Ohio, the slicing process is also referred to as " So... ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/34 "2024-11-26T17:09:23Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > **chipped-chopped ham** As a child, and as long as I lived with my dad, 5-pound canned hams were what we ate when we had ham for dinner. Dad would score the top diagonally, and then score it in the opposite direction. He put a whole clove into each intersection, covered the top with orange marmalade, and baked it in the oven until the marmalade was caramelised. It wasn’t until I was on my own that I realised those canned hams were chopped and formed. Today I make actual bone-in hams (spiral cut), or a spiral-cut boneless ham section for smaller dinners. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/35 "2024-11-26T18:55:40Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Its still in use in Aboriginal Australian English in that same sense of something being nonsense, or someone lying or trying to deceive you. > > Its attested as far back as 1828 and still in common use. We don’t have that contemporary English meaning. Farther back then that, isn’t it? There is a reference in the Canterbury Tales to the “Dunmow Flitch,” where, in the village of Little Dunmow, they would give a flitch of bacon to any man on the day after his first wedding anniversary if he would swear that he and his wife had not argued with each other at all since their wedding; supposedly, it comes from the fact that such a claim was considered “all gammon.” ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/36 "2024-11-26T20:59:27Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It wasn’t until I was on my own that I realised those canned hams were chopped and formed. I like the little 1 pound chopped & formed cans for baking and pan frying when Spam is too salty. They’re usually $3-4 at Aldi or Walmart and have a really long shelf life. Best, you don’t have four pounds of problem after dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/37 "2024-11-27T21:11:22Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > There is a reference in the Canterbury Tales to the “Dunmow Flitch,” where, in the village of Little Dunmow, they would give a flitch of bacon to any man on the day after his first wedding anniversary if he would swear that he and his wife had not argued with each other at all since their wedding; supposedly, it comes from the fact that such a claim was considered “all gammon.” That is great! Very believable. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/38 "2024-11-28T07:41:58Z")
The Dunmow Flitch trials still survive. In its contemporary version, unsuccessful claimants get a consolation prize of gammon. > **[Dunmow Flitch Trials - History - Background](https://www.dunmowflitchtrials.co.uk/history/)** > > A common claim of the origin of the Dunmow Flitch dates back to 1104 and the Augustinian Priory of Little Dunmow, founded by Lady Juga Baynard. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2024, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731/39 "2024-11-30T05:51:34Z")
I found this photo gallery posted to r/sousvide: [https://www.reddit.com/r/sousvide/comments/1h2jyzt/uk\_gammon\_joint\_experiment/](https://www.reddit.com/r/sousvide/comments/1h2jyzt/uk_gammon_joint_experiment/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gammon-vs-ham/1010731.md?page=1)