# Gandalf should have stayed dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 6, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-should-have-stayed-dead/683033 "2014-03-06T18:50:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gretchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8edcca/32.png) [@Gretchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gretchion)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-should-have-stayed-dead/683033/41 "2014-03-08T02:45:48Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > IIR they hadn’t decided what would happen except that Boromir would return to Minas Tirith. Aragorn was torn on whether he would join Boromir or accompany Frodo but was leaning towards the former with Gandalf leading Frodo. Thanks for your reply. I haven’t read the books in a long time, but now that you say that I do remember that. I’m guessing that if Gandalf had lived, Boromir (if he also lived…) and Aragorn would head to Minas Tirith. Legolas and Gimli, I’m not as sure, and Merry and Pippin would probably wish to stay with Frodo and Sam… although they might just chicken out if given the opportunity. So let’s just say Gandalf goes with Frodo and Sam. Does this make their quest too easy? I would guess he’d be presented with several reasons to have to leave them for a while, as often happened before. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-should-have-stayed-dead/683033/42 "2014-03-08T03:10:19Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > (Also, after he comes back, does he still have the Elven Sword – Glasnost…I mean Glamdring – that he picked up in The Hobbit? Do we ever see Gandalf the White wield Glamdring?) Yup. He temporarily hands it over to Hama at Edoras while Aragorn does his special snowflake thing about Anduril. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-should-have-stayed-dead/683033/43 "2014-03-08T03:16:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Gandalf was a Maiar, and thus, in some ways couldn’t be killed. His body could be destroyed but not his essence. Balrogs sensed Gandalf’s power, and sought the life essence. Gandalf did not avoid Balrogs, DrDeth . . . but he did deny them his essence. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-should-have-stayed-dead/683033/44 "2014-03-08T03:26:18Z")
> [@](#): > > It was very late and everyone had left the hall except an old man who sat in the shadows the leaves of the old Mallorn made against the moonlight. The two elves inside the hall knew that the old man was a little drunk, and while he usually was quiet and kept to himself they knew that if he became too drunk he would start setting things on fire, so they kept watch on him. > “He’s drunk,” one elf said. > > “What do you care?” > > “He’s muttering about the secret fire.” > > “Leave him alone. He used to carry a ring.” > > “He’ll stay all night. He should never have been rebodied.” > > The old man rapped on the table with his goblet. The younger elf went over to him. > > “What do you want?” > > The old man looked at him. “Another miruvor.” > > “You’ll be drunk,” the elf said. The old man looked at him. The elf went away. > > “Look at his bushy eyebrows,” he said to his colleague. “There is nothing as nasty as an old Man. He’ll stay all night and I’ll never get any sleep.” > > The elf took the bottle of miruvor from the counter inside the hall and marched to the old man’s table. He poured the goblet full. > > “You should never have been rebodied,” he said to the old man. From a little known thread. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-should-have-stayed-dead/683033/45 "2014-03-08T03:35:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **jsc1953** : > > Double-nitpick: if you’re referring to Akallabeth and the downfall of Numenor, then it wasn’t the Valar’s fault. They laid down their guardianship of the world, and it was Eru that broke it. Nah, that wasn’t the World being broken, just one little island. I was referring to the War of Wrath, at the end of the Silmarillion. Oh, and about Gandalf walking “beyond time”, it’s worth noting that this is even _more_ “dead” than elves ever get: If you put an arrow through an elf’s heart, his spirit will leave his body, same as any other creature’s, but the spirit will stay within the created World, and just travel to the Halls of Mandos off in the West. With time, the spirit will eventually be reborn into a new body, again still in the World, and it’ll stay in the World in some form or another all the way to the End. Humans, though, are different. When we die, our spirits leave the World, and the elves know not where they go, though they envy us this freedom. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-should-have-stayed-dead/683033.md?page=2)