# Gandalf Vs. Dumbledore **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 30, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657 "2003-08-30T17:03:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/61 "2003-09-06T02:07:05Z")
> [@](#): > > In any event, there are at least seven people in Middle-Earth capable of kicking some butt of shadow and flame, not the three previously claimed. Yeah, but the elves are _fading_, **Chronos**! In which Eldar’s eyes does the light of Aman still shine, save Galadriel’s and Glorfindel’s? Erenion Gil-Galad only managed to immobilize Sauron (granted Sauron’s more powerful than the balrog), with the help of Elendil, until Isildur cut off the ring, yet the battle proved fatal to the last king of the Noldor. And that was back in the Second Age! So I’d not be so confident that anyone from the family of Elrond could do the deed. As for any other elves, the first-born had spent their strength. Galadriel fought against being diminished, by the power of her ring. But she accepted that she must let herself fade and go into the West, rather than take the One Ring. Personally, I wouldn’t bet on anybody besides Gandalf and Glorfindel as being able to take down the Balrog. Among the Istari, Gandalf succeeded where the others failed because he remained true to his purpose. Galadriel could be a longshot, but her strength never was in battle. Cirdan spent all his days since Cuivienen providing safe havens for refugees, and avoiding conflicts wherever he could. Keep in mind, everyone who defeated a Balrog also died doing it. Ecthelion, Glorfindel, Gandalf. It’s not even known if Fëanor managed to take any Balrogs down to death with him. And he was considered the mightiest of the Eldar ever. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/62 "2003-09-06T03:01:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > \*\*Keep in mind, everyone who defeated a Balrog also died doing it. Ecthelion, Glorfindel, Gandalf. It’s not even known if Fëanor managed to take any Balrogs down to death with him. And he was considered the mightiest of the Eldar ever. \*\* How big (height-weight wise) were these legendary elves of old? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/63 "2003-09-06T03:27:30Z")
> [@](#): > > How big (height-weight wise) were these legendary elves of old? As big as the largest of men, plus they were far less susceptible to physical harm. As the ages wore on, their stature declined. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/64 "2003-09-06T03:33:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > \*\*As big as the largest of men, plus they were far less susceptible to physical harm. As the ages wore on, their stature declined. \*\* Not meaning to pester with endless follow ups, but " far less susceptible to physical harm" in what way? Were they were more durable (ie skin harder to cut), faster healing, protected by some “elf aura” … what? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/65 "2003-09-06T03:55:47Z")
Healed faster, enormous native vitality, far less need for rest/food and so forth, not susceptible to disease, far less affected by extremes of temperature. They don’t age (no cellular ageing or aptopsis). Their lifespan is that of the earth itself. Their bodies can be destroyed, but their spirits go to Mandos in Valinor, where they in time are re-housed in new bodies. Occasionally a spiritual sickness such as despair will cause them to leave their bodies, but their spirits are still stuck in the created world. As time wears on it is said that many of the Eldar envy the Gift of Men; aka death. After death, the spirits of men leave the world for unknown parts and destinies. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/66 "2003-09-06T20:49:46Z")
You may be right about that, **Qadgop**. Perhaps I should say that there are at least seven people who, _at one time_, could have defeated the Balrog? And I’m quite confident that Galadriel, even at the end of the Third Age, could have pulled it off. I’ve no idea exactly _how_ she would have done it, but it probably wouldn’t have been anything resembling a slug-it-out fight, and would have certainly been done with a lot of style. And Gandalf was the only one of the Istari to succeed in his mission, but that doesn’t mean he was the most powerful. In raw butt-kicking terms, Saruman was definitely more powerful. He lost in a battle of _authority_ with Gandalf, but that’s not the sort of conflict it would be with the Balrog. And certainly, of those I list, a team of two or three of them working together could have beaten the 'Rog. There’s no law that the battle has to be one on one. As for the size of the Elves, we’re not given measurements for most of them, but Galadriel was about 6’7". Admittedly, she was the tallest of Elf-maids, but that’s still pretty impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/67 "2003-09-06T23:10:00Z")
At what point did the elves reach the living-in-a-hollow-tree-and-baking-cookies stage? p.s. re:Gandalf/Dumbledore Most likely outcome is that Batman would kick both of them in the nuts and end it right there. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/68 "2003-09-06T23:15:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scumpup \* > \*\* Batman would kick both of them in the nuts and end it right there. \*\* Unless they give him some bad cookies. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/69 "2003-09-06T23:44:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scumpup \* > \*\*… > > p.s. re:Gandalf/Dumbledore Most likely outcome is that Batman would kick both of them in the nuts and end it right there. \*\* Well sure, if he’s prepared. Galadriel is 6 foot 7? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/70 "2003-09-07T00:38:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph \* > \*\*Galadriel is 6 foot 7? \*\* Nah, it’s those Elf boots. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/71 "2003-09-07T01:05:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph \* > \*\* Galadriel is 6 foot 7? \*\* At least. One of her Noldorin names, _Nerwen_ means “man-maiden”. Her mother gave her this name, because of her great height, and great strength in body and will. ---
**Author:** ![hebesphenomegacorona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b9e5f3/32.png) [@hebesphenomegacorona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hebesphenomegacorona)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/72 "2003-09-07T01:34:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > \*\*At least. One of her Noldorin names, _Nerwen_ means > “man-maiden”. Her mother gave her this name, because of her great height, and great strength in body and will. \*\* And because of a certain protusion from between her legs… ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/73 "2003-09-07T01:47:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hebesphenomegacorona \* > \*\*And because of a certain protusion from between her legs… \*\* Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/74 "2003-09-07T02:50:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > \*\*At least. One of her Noldorin names, _Nerwen_ means > “man-maiden”. Her mother gave her this name, because of her great height, and great strength in body and will. \*\* That makes her taller than [Michael Jordan](http://www.sportsline.com/u/jordan/2001/player/index.htm). I’m not seeing it. So how tall is, say, Aragorn (book, not movie)? Legolas? Denethor? I always figured when these characters were described as being tall in LOTR it was from a Hobbit’s point of view. I could see Galadriel being 5’10" to maybe just over 6 feet, but 6 foot 7? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/75 "2003-09-07T03:22:54Z")
Well, 6’ 4" maybe. > [@](#): > > Galadriel, ‘the tallest of all the women of the Eldar of whom tales tell’, was said to be man-high, but it is noted according to the measure of the Dúnedain and the men of old. The term ‘man-high’ was of Númenórean origin, meaning two rangar. A ranga was the standard marching pace of a Númenórean soldier, set at 38 of our inches, making man-high a height of 6’ 4” or 1.93M. From Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-Earth; The Disaster of Gladden Fields, Appendix Númenórean Linear Measures. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657/76 "2003-09-07T12:22:07Z")
You know, I’d gladly take Gandalf or Dumbledore as my mentor, and I’ve been compared to Professor McGonagall, but my money’s got to be on Gandalf. Dumbledore has basically taken on human, mortal opponents, despite Voldemort’s attempts to be otherwise. Gandalf takes on demi-Gods and wins, not to mention being pretty good with a sword. I’m not even sure Voldemort would win against Mercedes Lackey’s Mornelithe Falconsbane. IN fact, I suspect it’d be a short, ugly contest. CJ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gandalf-vs-dumbledore/198657.md?page=3)