# Gangster dance battles - fake right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 26, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213 "2013-08-26T16:56:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/1 "2013-08-26T16:56:35Z")
A common trope on tv these days is the ‘dance battle’ in which thugs solve their problems not with uzis and glocks but by feats of synchronised arobics. Maybe the States has a different breed of gangster to here, but this strikes me as incredibly stupid. Is there _any_ truth to this idea? Does that kind of dancing have street cred? Are dance battles where vicious thugs seek to ‘bring it’ a thing? And if, as I suspect, they aren’t, where did the idea come from? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/2 "2013-08-26T17:01:24Z")
Two words - Leonard Bernstein. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/3 "2013-08-26T17:09:21Z")
^^^^ and given later popularity through Michael Jackson’s _Beat It_ and _Bad_. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/4 "2013-08-26T17:09:50Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Two words - Leonard Bernstein. Three Words [“West Side Story”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Side_Story). ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/5 "2013-08-26T18:26:59Z")
The best one was in Zoolander. But anyway, yeah. It’s a musical/movie trope. It never occurs in real life, because it’s exactly as ridiculous as you assume it is. They did it in West Side Story because it’s a musical and that’s how _all_ musics do “combat” scenes. Since then, (with the exception of Michael Jackson’s videos), it’s mostly played for laughs, or at least extremely tongue-in-cheek. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/6 "2013-08-26T18:34:21Z")
I guess you could tie a tenuous real-word connection to the trope with Crip Walking. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/7 "2013-08-26T18:37:20Z")
Next thing you guys are going to tell me is that crowds of people do not spontaneously burst into song every couple of minutes to say how their life is going. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/8 "2013-08-26T19:22:28Z")
… and, if the film is set in India, that groups of women in matching saris and synchronized dance moves do not emerge from the crowds to provide backup. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/9 "2013-08-26T19:23:05Z")
There might be a vestigial trace of historical accuracy there. Dance was an essential element of sub-Saharan African culture, and some of that has no doubt persisted in African-American culture. Note, this would specifically apply to black Americans; less so to other ethnic groups. (To the extent that it has infiltrated into gang culture, maybe it could have bled into non-black gang culture too. I have no idea about that.) For one example, dance was a common part of African part of coming-of-age rituals, among other uses. There were also ritual warrior dances. A few cites: Wikipedia: [African dance - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_dance) From [dance.lovetoknow.com](http://dance.lovetoknow.com): [Historyof African Dance](http://dance.lovetoknow.com/History_of_African_Dance). Google Dance in African Culture to find more. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/10 "2013-08-26T19:33:25Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > … and, if the film is set in India, that groups of women in matching saris and synchronized dance moves do not emerge from the crowds to provide backup. I believe one of the “not another teen movie” series poked fun at that with a comment during a dance number to the effect of “isnt it amazing that our whole high school are professional grade dancers” ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/11 "2013-08-26T19:47:48Z")
_West Side Story_ was from 1961. Previous musicals with gangster-themed dance numbers include Fred Astaire in _The Band Wagon_ (1953), and Gene Kelly in _Singin’ in the Rain_ (1952). ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/12 "2013-08-26T19:56:03Z")
The Maori haka is another real-life example of a pre-combat dance ritual, although that would be followed up with combat. On the other hand, Thucydides noted that while most Greek city-states would engage in some form of pre-battle ritualized chanting and shield-beating that comes close to the concept of a dance-off, the Spartans stony refusal to do so (along with their reputation) would occasionally actually frighten their opponents off the field. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/13 "2013-08-26T20:39:33Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > There might be a vestigial trace of historical accuracy there. > > Dance was an essential element of sub-Saharan African culture, and some of that has no doubt persisted in African-American culture. Note, this would specifically apply to black Americans; less so to other ethnic groups. (To the extent that it has infiltrated into gang culture, maybe it could have bled into non-black gang culture too. I have no idea about that.) > > For one example, dance was a common part of African part of coming-of-age rituals, among other uses. There were also ritual warrior dances. > > A few cites: > Wikipedia: [African dance - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_dance) > From [dance.lovetoknow.com](http://dance.lovetoknow.com): [Historyof African Dance](http://dance.lovetoknow.com/History_of_African_Dance). > > Google Dance in African Culture to find more. I don’t really think that exotic African cultures are the only ones that use [ritual dance before battles](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmzni2_baltimore-ravens-pregame-chant_sport) or dancing as part of a [coming of age ritual](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prom). ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/14 "2013-08-26T21:31:25Z")
The famous Apache Dance was created in 1908 from the dances in Apache hangouts in Paris where the thugs frolicked. **[Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_%28dance%29)** _The dance is sometimes said to reenact a violent “discussion” between a pimp and a prostitute. It includes mock slaps and punches, the man picking up and throwing the woman to the ground, or lifting and carrying her while she struggles or feigns unconsciousness. Thus, the dance shares many features with the theatrical discipline of stage combat. In some examples, the woman may fight back._ ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/15 "2013-08-26T21:57:45Z")
There was also [Calypso stick fighting](http://geoffreymulder.com/Worldmusic/Trinidad.html). ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/16 "2013-08-27T01:35:29Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Next thing you guys are going to tell me is that crowds of people do not spontaneously burst into song every couple of minutes to say how their life is going. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > … and, if the film is set in India, that groups of women in matching saris and synchronized dance moves do not emerge from the crowds to provide backup. I remember one of the items on that “Everything I Know I Learned from the Movies” list was: “If you decide to dance in the street, everybody you meet will know the steps.” ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/17 "2013-08-27T02:27:13Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > A common trope on tv these days is the ‘dance battle’ in which thugs solve their problems not with uzis and glocks but by feats of synchronised arobics. > > Are dance battles where vicious thugs seek to ‘bring it’ a thing? > > And if, as I suspect, they aren’t, where did the idea come from? AFAIK, dance battles were a part of Brazilian culture, shading off at both ends into dance and violence. At one end, the carnival dance schools are in competition. You win status by being better. At the other end, dancing, like at a dance, is what you do in between beating up strangers and rivals. You have a couple of dance numbers, then the crowd splits to the two sides of the hall and you have a fight. Then some more dancing. And in the tex/mex and irish/italian tradition, dancing with a woman was an open invitation to violance unless you had been introduced to and accepted by the community. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/18 "2013-08-27T03:21:48Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > _West Side Story_ was from 1961. Previous musicals with gangster-themed dance numbers include Fred Astaire in _The Band Wagon_ (1953), and Gene Kelly in _Singin’ in the Rain_ (1952). I thought it was Malcolm McDowell that did “Singin’ in the Rain” in a movie… along with fancy footwork, with his droogs. I think the typical gangster dance nowadays has more of a Mexican beat, including the grand finale where they chop all the heads off the front row dancers. And put them in a duffel bag. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/19 "2013-08-27T03:49:49Z")
It’s not completely nuts. Group dancing takes a lot of skill and training - like close order drill. It doesn’t directly make a unit more effective but it demonstrates that the unit is effective. And this in turn can have the indirect benefit of making the unit more cohesive and demoralizing its opponents. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213/20 "2013-08-27T13:00:53Z")
The [Mardi Gras Indians](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mardi_Gras_Indians) might be a good example in the US. Just listen to the song Iko Iko. The Big Chiefs have a sort of strut off, and there used to be violence involved. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gangster-dance-battles-fake-right/667213.md?page=2)