# Gas Out? Are you really that stupid? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523 "2007-05-25T18:59:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523/81 "2007-05-30T23:29:30Z")
[QUOTE=Barbarian] I still insist that if you’re only doing a 10 mile commute, and you aren’t going on a highway, a 50cc scooter makes a great option. (I’d also like to know where a 50 cc scooter isn’t included in a general car driving license.) [/QUOTE] I know it isn’t in Washington State, but it took some digging to find it: [http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.20.500](http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.20.500) [QUOTE=Washington State Law] (1) No person may drive either a two-wheeled or a three-wheeled motorcycle, or a motor-driven cycle unless such person has a valid driver’s license specially endorsed by the director to enable the holder to drive such vehicles. ``` (2) However, a person sixteen years of age or older, holding a valid driver's license of any class issued by the state of the person's residence, may operate a moped without taking any special examination for the operation of a moped. ``` [/QUOTE] There’s another section of the law I saw in my search that was very specific in its definition of what was a “Motorcycle” vs a “Motor-Driven Cycle” vs a “Foot Scooter”. Scooters as have been identified in this thread could fall into the “Motor-Driven Cycle” or “Foot Scooter” category. It seems pretty clear that “Foot Scooters” aren’t intended for real commutes, though. Basically, if it’s supposed to go on the road in traffic, and its not a moped, you need an endorsement. With the proviso concerning mopeds, it seems pretty clear to me that the exclusion of 50cc scooters is an oversight. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear the local law enforcement either looks away when scooters go by, or are outright ignorant of the actual laws. Nonetheless, in my MSF class they made a big point of telling us that scooters are considered the same as motorcycles under Washington State law. I’ll go with what my MSF instructors told me - after all, they were right about everything else 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523/82 "2007-05-30T23:30:47Z")
[QUOTE=Algher] Good point - I can only honestly offer in my defense that I read this originally somewhere semi legit, and that was a quickie Google found for me. Thanks for the MUCH better research and cite! [/QUOTE] 😃 It got a laugh out of me and prompted me to look, so thanks for posting your original response! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523/83 "2007-05-31T05:30:10Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I am having trouble believing that you are this dirt stupid. [/QUOTE] Thanks. > [@](#): > > I made a comment about employees not being paid on commission and how a single day of a gas out would not likely affect their wages in any way as they get paid a fixed hourly rate. Your comment was in response to a statement about owners, not employees. > [@](#): > > I would talk slower but it’s text. Slower maybe, but no less intelligently. What is lower then rock bottom? > [@](#): > > What about my point was so difficult to understand? The person I was speaking to got it. No, he didn’t. At least he didn’t agree with you. Go back and read his response again. > [@](#): > > What’s your damage? I’m learning about neurology, please tell me about your condition I’ll look it up, it’ll help me learn the functions of different areas of the brain better for the final, and I learn more when I have a context I can relate it to. I don’t suffer fools gladly. A real handicap in today’s world. Can you get me one of those stickers? ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523/84 "2007-05-31T06:27:46Z")
[QUOTE=Leviosaurus] Well, you haven’t disproved my statement. There are motorcycles which get 70 mpg, which beats the hell out of a Prius. There are motorcycles that get worse than 20 mpg, but they’re still better than SUVs. In general, motorcycles get better mileage than cars. [/quote] You wrote that motorcycles are “unquestionably better fuel economy” than cars. I said that’s not true in all cases. I gave an example of a case where a particular car gets better mileage than a particular motorcycle. Therefore, my statement is true. Everything else you have said is irrelevant with regard to my statement. > [@](#): > > No, I’m not the confused one here. You commented that my bike only gets 40-45mpg , and evaded the comment about scooters getting 60-90 mpg by saying you were only posting in response to post #65. Point out where in post #65 I say that my bike gets 40-45mpg and I will happily concede the point. Again, I never claimed that you said that in post #65. Why would I be interested in pointing out something that I never claimed to be true? I “evaded” nothing. You said motorcycles are “unquestionably better fuel economy” than cars. And I said that’s not true in all cases. You are still confused. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523/85 "2007-05-31T06:53:03Z")
[QUOTE=Barbarian] I’m sure there are a few vehicles that have EPA ratings for fuel efficiency that are better than what I get on my bike – but they are few and far between, and cost a hell of a lot more than my Bandit. [/quote] Brand new, yes. Used, no. You could get a Geo Metro, Civic VX, or Toyota Echo that get incredibly good mileage, probably better mileage than your bike (the Geo anyway), and most likely less money. They’re not “far between”; I see ads for them all the time. Nothing against bikes, of course. If that’s what you like, then go for it. There’s more than one way to skin a cat, and a motorcycle isn’t practical for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523/86 "2007-05-31T20:43:02Z")
**Leviosaurus** that’s mighty weird, especially since I know there’s a scooter place in the San Juan that rents to anyone who can drive a car. **lowbrass** , the Geo Metro was taken off the market ten years ago. That alone makes 'em few and far between. 😉 Here are the EPA ratings for the [most fuel efficient cars in the past five years](http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/5yearhigh-low.htm%5B/url). The _actual_ efficiency of my 650cc motorcycle is 40.7 to 44.3 MPG. I beat everything except hybrids and diesels. What do I win? A heavier wallet, ABS brakes, and no mechanical problems that stem from driving a decade-old vehicle 😉 People may also want to peruse [www.fueleconomy.gov](http://www.fueleconomy.gov) ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523/87 "2007-05-31T21:26:57Z")
[QUOTE=Barbarian] **lowbrass** , the Geo Metro was taken off the market ten years ago. That alone makes 'em few and far between. 😉 [/quote] No it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > Here are the EPA ratings for the [most fuel efficient cars in the past five years](http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/5yearhigh-low.htm%5B/url). Link doesn’t work. > [@](#): > > The _actual_ efficiency of my 650cc motorcycle is 40.7 to 44.3 MPG. I beat everything except hybrids and diesels. What do I win? A heavier wallet, ABS brakes, and no mechanical problems that stem from driving a decade-old vehicle 😉 Where’s your cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523/88 "2007-05-31T21:37:53Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] Link doesn’t work. [/QUOTE] [Easily fixed.](http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/5yearhigh-low.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523/89 "2007-05-31T21:56:32Z")
[QUOTE=Barbarian] **Leviosaurus** that’s mighty weird, especially since I know there’s a scooter place in the San Juan that rents to anyone who can drive a car. [/QUOTE] _shrug_ Like I said, it’s what they told me in the MSF class, it appears to be the law on the books as far as I’ve found. Frankly, 50cc scooters should be allowed, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523/90 "2007-05-31T22:29:51Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] Where’s your cite for that? [/QUOTE] Sorry about the busted link. My credit card receipts list how much gas I put in the tank, and I write down the odometer reading… ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523/91 "2007-06-01T18:09:54Z")
[QUOTE=Barbarian] Sorry about the busted link. My credit card receipts list how much gas I put in the tank, and I write down the odometer reading… [/QUOTE] O.K., thanks. I was just trying to ascertain if we’re using EPA calculations or personal calculations. The person I mentioned who bought the Geo Metro for $200? He gets 50 mpg. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523/92 "2007-06-01T19:48:30Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] The dealers are either sold out of the fuel-efficient cars, or they’re gouging the prices to the tune of thousands of dollars over MSRP (yes, over MSRP, not over invoice). They’re sure not gonna make it easy for us. [/QUOTE] Ya know, you’re right on there. For giggles, I looked for a used Jetta TDI in my area and found one with almost 15,000 miles on it for $26k, and it was already a year old. I built a non-TDI 2008 jetta on the VW website with all the possible bells and whistles I could ever want or need, and it was only $28k MSRP!. No matter which way you turn in this deal, you’re fucked. The oil bastards gouge you for their outrageous profits no matter what you’re driving, the car-making and selling bastards stick it to you if the car uses less gas, cause everyone wants/needs that, so of course they’ll be more than willing to sell it to you for thousands over MSRP (as **lowbrass** points out). That’s why I’m on my motorcycle as often as I can be. This coal sauce comes off the earth we all live on, and everything you do, buy, eat, wear, use or watch is touched by oil. It is, IMO, one of the most important elements in the world right now. It drives every economic engine in every country in the world, and yet it is in the hands of profiteers who have assholes like Bush in their pockets. Just pisses me right off. I’ll gather the torches and pitchforks, someone else gather the villagers, we’re stormin’ the exxon. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523/93 "2007-06-01T20:03:59Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] I’ll gather the torches and pitchforks, someone else gather the villagers, we’re stormin’ the exxon. [/QUOTE] I’m in! I have some really cool propane torches we could use. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gas-out-are-you-really-that-stupid/405523.md?page=4)