# Gasoline assisted electric car?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [January 19, 2000, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625 "2000-01-19T21:05:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Kent4mmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent4mmy)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/1 "2000-01-19T21:05:00Z")
A local dealership here has been playing radio ads promoting a gasoline assisted electric car. Don’t know who makes it but it’s reported to get up to 70mpg and never needs recharging.
I also saw a tv commercial (sorry, wasn’t paying enough attention to get the make/model) promoting one.
I also read a report that (GM?) spent millions on an all-electric car design but it only goes 55-60mph tops and has to be recharged often and for long periods of time.
Would you buy one of these “experiments” and if so, why?
I put this in MPSIMS because of it’s lack of pertinent info.
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### Author:  [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/2 "2000-01-19T21:16:00Z")
I _believe_ the car you’re referring to is a Honda. I base that on the MPG figure you quoted. From what I understand, Honda is actually selling these cars at a price (approx $20,000) lower than their cost in an effort to stimulate the market for these cars. From what I read, there are surprisingly few drawbacks, they get awesome mileage and they have a good range. One major drawback is that the frame of the car is of a special lightweight design similar to that of the NSX’s, and if you wreck the car, the repair costs are extensive. I’d guess that other parts and labor costs are expensive for most other repairs as well.
A few tidbits I remember about this car off the top of my head:
- Most friction energy usually wasted during braking (and subsequently turned into heat) is used to recharge the cars battery.
- When the car comes to a complete stop, so does the engine. As soon as you step on the gas, the engine begins to turn again. So it would seem as if the car stalled everytime you come to a stop.
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### Author:  [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/3 "2000-01-19T21:24:00Z")
I think the, “gasoline assisted electric car,” you’re speaking of, is called a, “hybrid.” These guys have pretty fair sized electric motors on either two wheels or all four. A bank of batteries normally provides the power to the wheels and when the batteries get low, or under a heavy electric load, a small gasoline engine kicks in to recharge the batteries. The engine has no physical connection to the drive wheels.
I’ve been hearing about this type of vehicle for 3 or 4 years now, but wasn’t aware any were in production yet. There are a number of very nice advantages to this set up.
[ul][li]You carry the battery charger right along with you obviating the need to stop and recharge.[/li][li]Greatly extended range over the other electrics; range is really limited only by the amount of gas you can carry, just like a conventional gas engine.[/li][li]A very flat torque curve and the proper electric motor selection allows enhanced performanced.[/li][li]Reduced emissions since you use far less gasoline.[/ul][/li]
They sound like a pretty damn good compromise between conventional gas or diesel engine and the electrics on the market today. So, yes, I’d consider buying a hybrid. You can take the pure electrics and drop 'em in the scrapyard though.
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“Your posting style resembles a cross between a spastic squirrel and one-handed ventriloquist.”
–Mullinator, paraphrased–
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### Author:  [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/4 "2000-01-19T21:32:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Most friction energy usually wasted during braking (and subsequently turned into heat) is used to recharge the cars battery.
This is called [Regenerative Braking](http://www.hev.doe.gov/components/regen.html). I doubt that’s the technology being used here; I have been under the, maybe mistaken, impression that this technology isn’t quite here yet.
I’ll see if I can find a link to the manufacturer the OP is referring to.
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“Your posting style resembles a cross between a spastic squirrel and one-handed ventriloquist.”
–Mullinator, paraphrased–
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### Author:  [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/5 "2000-01-19T21:35:00Z")
[Toyota Prius](http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/business/toyota1014/index.html)
It was unveiled on October 14, 1999 for sale to the world market. It uses the hybrid gas/electric technology I described above.
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### Author:  [@MadPoet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadPoet)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/6 "2000-01-19T21:37:00Z")
Pure electric vehicles currently suck… I believe 100 miles is the current maximum range, and then you have to charge it for a few hours. The hybrids on the other hand… well, I’d buy one in an instant if I could afford one. The one I know about is 60-70mpg and gets 700 miles on a tank of gas. There is also a diesel one coming out that gets 80+mpg. Only drawback, as mentioned, is the light frame… with all the pickups and SUVs on the road, getting in an accident is gonna be much worse. Two tanks to SoCal makes up for it though.
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[http://www.madpoet.com](http://www.madpoet.com)
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### Author:  [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/7 "2000-01-19T21:40:00Z")
Yet one more [link](http://www.toyota.com/cgi-bin/top_frame.cgi?low_frame=%2fafv%2fprius%2fintro_prius.html&data_frame=). This one is the official Toyota homepage of the Prius.
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### Author:  [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/8 "2000-01-19T21:50:00Z")
The Honda is supposedly available for the 2000 model year.
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### Author:  [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/9 "2000-01-19T22:38:00Z")
I know there is a hybrid Honda that was just introduced in Europe. I don’t know about the US though. Let me do a quick search…
## There ya go. It’s the Honda Insight in the US. [http://www.honda2000.com/models/insight/index.html](http://www.honda2000.com/models/insight/index.html)
Coldfire
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“You know how complex women are”
- Neil Peart, Rush (1993)
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### Author:  [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/10 "2000-01-19T23:07:00Z")
Well, that Honda’s about as ugly as a hat full of assholes. Yuck.
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“Your posting style resembles a cross between a spastic squirrel and one-handed ventriloquist.”
–Mullinator, paraphrased–
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### Author:  [@KeithB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KeithB)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/11 "2000-01-19T23:13:00Z")
The other advantage is that since the engine is small and run at a very efficient part of the power curve, the emissions are very low.
In California, car makers are _required_ to have a certain percentage of the cars they sell have ultra low emissions. (It was to be _zero_ emissions, but, as was already pointed out, the electrics {the only _zero_ emission cars} don’t cut it.)
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### Author:  [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2000, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/12 "2000-01-19T23:19:00Z")
Thanks for the link Coldfire.
Yeah, Insight is the hybrid Honda I was referring to previously. Honda is selling it for less than cost.
BTW, it does utilize regenerative-braking.
IMO, there should be extensive incentives (say that fast three times) offered to the early-adopters of these hybrid cars. That’s the only way they’re going to get enough people to make the switch and that will cause the prices on parts and repairs to drop.
I imagine that the mechanics of the new millenium will be making more then the doctors and lawyers. Just think about the degree of complexity that increased with the advent of fuel-injected, computerized cars. Now imagine all the new-fangled contraptions that will be abound in these hybrid cars!!!
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### Author:  [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2000, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/13 "2000-01-21T06:40:00Z")
I just realized that this thread is in MPSIMS. Shouldn’t it be in GQ?
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### Author:  [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2000, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/14 "2000-01-21T06:54:00Z")
Dunno, this one could have gone either way. At any rate I think we handled it pretty well right here. Except for my mistake about the use of regenerative braking. Oh, well.
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“That it is unwise to be heedless ourselves while we are giving advice to others, I will show in a few lines.” - Phaedrus, translator of Aesop’s Fables
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2000, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/15 "2000-02-09T01:57:00Z")
I remember c.1984 seeing an article in _Popular Science_ or _Mechanics Illustrated_ about a hybrid car. Plans were available to convert your car.
IIRC, the conversion involved replacing the engine with a “jet engine starter motor” (i.e., a large electric motor) that bolted with an adapter plate to the transmission. Batteries powered the motor and they were recharged with a small Kubota diesel tractor engine.
OARN: Aren’t diesel locomotives hybrids? That is, aren’t they driven by electric motors powered by diesel engines? (I should start watching _The Great Trains_, or whatever they call it, on The History Channel.)
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### Author:  [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2000, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/16 "2000-02-09T02:33:00Z")
The current hybrid vehicles are not simply electric vehicles with an on-board generator. In both the Toyota and the Honda, both the engine and the motor are connected through a complex transmission system to the wheels. The Honda is the simpler of the two; it is basically an underpowered gasoline engine car with an electric motor to give it an extra push when needed. Like a starter motor that also kicks in while accelerating. The battery is charged from regenerative braking. I’m not sure if the generator/brake is a separate unit from the motor though.
The Toyota Prius has a more sophisticated system; it can run on electric motoro only, gasoline engine only, or both, depending on the speed and condition. When first starting and at low speeds it runs only on electric motors. When accelerating to higher speeds, both the engine and the motor are used. When cruising, the engine puts out more power than is needed to keep the car running, so the extra power is used to charge the battery. When decellerating it uses regenerative braking to charge the battery. I saw an interview of a Honda engineer who admitted the Toyota is much more sophisticated; Honda used lightweight structures and aerodynamic design to get a higher MPG. The Toyota Prius is a larger car and can seat 4. It’s been available in Japan for about 2 years now, though Honda beat them to the US market.
The advantage of these systems over the ‘purely electric vehicle with a gas-powered generator’ approach is that neither the engine nor the motor needs to be big enough to run the car. If the engine has no physical connection to the wheels, you’d need bigger motors. Though personally I’m not convinced that this is worth the complexity.
Also, ‘hybrid’ really referes to the power source, and not the type of motor/engine used. In this sense, diesel-electric locomotives and ships are not hybrids. They have only the diesel engine as a power source, and the generator and motor are only taking place of the transmission. If they put a huge battery on them so they won’t have to rev up the engine when starting, then they’d be hybrid vehicles.
Regenerative braking is not new either. Some electric trains in the Swiss apls use them - three downhill trains can power one uphill train. They weren’t practical elsewhere because it usually involves storing the recovered energy, and battery is expensive and heavy.
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### Author:  [@Studi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Studi)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2000, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/17 "2000-02-09T03:35:00Z")
The future is here!
Studi
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When I grow up, I want to be the Minister of Silly Walks.
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### Author:  [@Oblio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblio)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2000, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/18 "2000-02-09T16:23:00Z")
Some interesting details on the Honda from Designfax.
[http://www.designfax.net/archives/0100/01auto.asp](http://www.designfax.net/archives/0100/01auto.asp)
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### Author:  [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2000, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasoline-assisted-electric-car/13625/19 "2000-02-11T00:14:00Z")
MadPoet says:
> [@](#):
>
> Pure electric vehicles currently suck… I believe 100 miles is the current maximum range, and then you have to charge it for a few hours.
They don’t go far on a charge, but “suck” is a little strong. Most cars are mostly used for driving a few miles to work or to the store, for which that hundred-mile range is plenty. There are a lot of households with two or more vehicles anyway, so one gas-powered car could be available for longer trips. And rentals are fairly cheap too.
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Bob the Random Expert
“If we don’t have the answer, we’ll make one up.”