# \*gasp!\* Cuban Model might not be working? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141 "2010-09-09T03:25:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/1 "2010-09-09T03:25:18Z")
I know…shocking. It seems that the Cuban Model (Cuban Communist system I presume) isn’t working ‘anymore’…even for the Cuban’s. Well, if you can believe the source, which is the notorious right wing conservative and anti-Communist firebrand, [Fidel Castro](http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/09/08/cuba.castro.communism/index.html?hpt=T2). > [@](#): > > Fidel Castro told a visiting American journalist that the “Cuban model” no longer works, an apparent admission of failings in the communist economic model introduced by his revolution more than 50 years ago. > > “The Cuban model doesn’t even work for us anymore,” Castro told Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic in an interview last week. Goldberg published parts of the exchange on a blog Tuesday and Wednesday. The debate isn’t really about whether or not Communism (Cuban or otherwise) ‘works’…but more about whether or not this will finally make the die hard element ADMIT that it doesn’t work ‘anymore’. Thoughts? -XT ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/2 "2010-09-09T03:52:33Z")
Even before the fall of the wall it was clear that nations that did not adopt market economics were headed towards a dead end. This and the lack of democracy were the items that convinced me a long time ago that Castro was not going to be absolved by history. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/3 "2010-09-09T04:18:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Castro’s younger brother and successor, President Raul Castro, has said as much in numerous speeches since taking the reins of power in 2006. Castros other brother, Dennis, was silenced years ago for making similar remarks. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/4 "2010-09-09T05:02:51Z")
Yeah, when I saw that article, I was tempted to start a thread: “Castro: Oops!”. But it was just an off the cuff comment to one reporter. Nothing official. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/5 "2010-09-09T05:09:11Z")
Once you’ve acquired a rice cooker, is there anything else anyone really needs? ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/6 "2010-09-09T05:16:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Once you’ve acquired a rice cooker, is there anything else anyone really needs? A pickle slicer of course. But dont try to impregnate either one. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/7 "2010-09-09T05:22:28Z")
> [@FuzzyOgre](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > Once you’ve acquired a rice cooker, is there anything else anyone really needs? > > A pickle slicer of course. > > But dont try to impregnate either one. Well that’s certainly food for thought. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/8 "2010-09-09T05:29:04Z")
The American model is not working so well either. Same for the Dubai model. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/9 "2010-09-09T05:30:51Z")
Communism and capitalism are both too idealistic. We need something in-between that works. -A free but well-regulated consumer market -Free and lightly-regulated press -Partially or fully subsidized higher education and healthcare -Major campaign finance reforms to give more non-career politicians and “outsiders” a chance to hold elected offices -Reasonable/practical protections for jobs and manufacturing (example: if it’s illegal to pay someone $4 per day here, a company should not be able to just move overseas and pay that wage in some country where it’s legal.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/10 "2010-09-09T05:38:40Z")
Well, it was pretty much over when Reagan boldly blocked their attempt to seize Grenada, their plans for world domination pretty much ended. So, can we stop pretending these poor bastards were some sort of big hairy-ass threat? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/11 "2010-09-09T05:53:25Z")
Certainly. Just as soon as we can stop pretending that their fucked up system ever worked at all, or had any redeeming qualities to it. Now, if Fidel et al will just hop into the dust bin, we can be about it. You are buyin the first round, yes? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/12 "2010-09-09T06:44:56Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > we can stop pretending that their fucked up system ever worked at all, or had any redeeming qualities to it. Whoa, whoa, let’s not go overboard. Their cars become _really_ cool again every 10 years or so (or whenever Brian Setzer puts out a new record). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/13 "2010-09-09T06:51:08Z")
I’ve thought the Cuban model hasn’t been working for years. But why should it be automatically proven because Castro said so? Presumedly a lot of the people who think Cuba isn’t working are also people who distrust Castro. Why should you cite him as a trustworthy authority now just because he’s saying something you happen to agree with? My assumption is that Castro has his own ulterior motives for saying the Cuban model isn’t working and his statement is no more trustworthy on its own than anything he has said in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/14 "2010-09-09T06:53:27Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Certainly. Just as soon as we can stop pretending that their fucked up system ever worked at all, or had any redeeming qualities to it. No redeeming qualities? Have you compared the cost of sixteen year old Cuban prostitutes to those in other Caribbean countries? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/15 "2010-09-09T13:45:56Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] No redeeming qualities? Have you compared the cost of sixteen year old Cuban prostitutes to those in other Caribbean countries? [/QUOTE] No, I can’t say I have. For one thing, I like my women a bit older. For another, I like my women to be, um, more rounded, which probably lets out most Cuban prostitutes. I am, however, willing to do some extensive testing, if grant money can be obtained. I’m also willing to sample (in the name of science of course) a selection of fine Cuban cigars from around the country as well. (Of course, what you quoted there was talking about the ‘fucked up system’ which has no redeeming qualities to it…not the Cuban people or things made in Cuba. I LOVE Cuban cigars, and could probably find a nice 30-40 something prostitute that meets my exacting standards as well :p) -XT ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/16 "2010-09-09T13:51:00Z")
My understanding is all the other communist nations (except north korea) abandoned economic communism decades ago. Laos, Vietnam & China are all more free market economies operating under the heading of communism. However that isn’t to say that regulation against abuses is a bad thing. Or that social safety nets are a bad thing. However in the west communism is used as an umbrella term to criticize nearly everything (labor laws, environmental laws, universal health care). ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/17 "2010-09-09T13:57:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve thought the Cuban model hasn’t been working for years. > > But why should it be automatically proven because Castro said so? Presumedly a lot of the people who think Cuba isn’t working are also people who distrust Castro. Why should you cite him as a trustworthy authority now just because he’s saying something you happen to agree with? > > My assumption is that Castro has his own ulterior motives for saying the Cuban model isn’t working and his statement is no more trustworthy on its own than anything he has said in the past. I think what makes it newsworthy is that this kind of statement has never been made by any Cuban official, least of all the father of the Cuban revolution. Yes, he’s just confirming what everyone, in Cuba and abroad, already knows, but now this truth is spoken. It should also be remembered that in Cuba it is illegal to criticize the Cuban government, this is the crime of ‘desacato’, or disrespect. However now that Castro himself has paved the way, it might become more accepted to do so in Cuba. Then again, this might also be Fidel’s way to insert himself back into the government. His younger (79 years old), brother has been running the country since 2006, so maybe all Fidel is saying is that Raul’s government is not working. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/18 "2010-09-09T14:05:46Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Certainly. Just as soon as we can stop pretending that their fucked up system ever worked at all, or had any redeeming qualities to it. From [“Waiting for the Next Revolution,”](http://www.thenation.com/article/waiting-next-revolution) by Jordana Timerman, who visited Cuba in 2008 in search of on-the-ground speculation about a post-Castro future: > [@](#): > > “The worst problems we have are food, transportation and housing,” said a blue-shirted clerk at a rations store just outside of Havana. As he spoke he also measured out the week’s ration of crackers for neighborhood women coming in one afternoon. He deftly put the plastic bags they brought with them on a scale and scooped in the appropriate portion of hard, round crackers, later checking off the appropriate slot on their ration booklets. > > He explained very carefully the economic conundrum faced by most Cubans: “We get a basic food basket, and that’s very subsidized. It’s supposed to last a month, but it can’t, it lasts two weeks. So people have to get a little more, like at a farmers market or elsewhere. But that’s more expensive. You have to find a way, invent something.” > > Behind the clerk, samples of items covered by the ration booklet, labeled with the negligible cost and how often families are entitled to each item, sat forlornly on the shelf: a cup of rice, one of beans, a carton of cigarettes, a bar of soap. > > Asked about Castro’s eventual death, the clerk furrowed his brow. “I’m 42, I’ve never had another leader. I don’t know what happens,” he said with a shrug. And it is difficult for anybody to really know, he said. “There’s no free press here, you know.” And there can be no opposition “because there is only one party, and you have to do what they say, or else they make you disappear.” But one of the shriveled old women buying her rations interjects. “I saw what it was like before,” she said, showing her toothless gums and shaking her scarf-covered head. “I don’t want anything to change.” So, at least to one old woman who remembers the Batista days, the system must have **some** redeeming qualities. FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/19 "2010-09-09T14:07:34Z")
> [@lalenin](#): > > Then again, this might also be Fidel’s way to insert himself back into the government. His younger (79 years old), brother has been running the country since 2006, so maybe all Fidel is saying is that Raul’s government is not working. Personally, I read it as the reverse. Raul has been experimenting with some reforms to the system (granted, reasonably minor reforms). To me, when Fidel acknowledged the old style system wasn’t working, he was implying reforms were needed. Which is a nice way to try and make sure the most die hard elements of Cubans stay off Raul’s back. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141/20 "2010-09-09T14:19:09Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The American model is not working so well either. Same for the Dubai model. Which way are the refugees going? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gasp-cuban-model-might-not-be-working/553141.md?page=2)