# "Gateau" as "Cookie" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 29, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114 "2012-01-29T22:06:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/1 "2012-01-29T22:06:31Z")
During my education, the French word “gateau” referred to one of two things: [ol] [li]Cake.[/li][li]A certain kind of derivative on functionals equivalient to the directional derivative for functions on finite-dimensional vector spaces.[/li][/ol] But I am being told now, by someone who spent some time in France in the 90s, that in certain places, the word is actually taken to mean “cookie”. Where does that occur? Is this a France vs. Quebec thing? Or a regional thing? I’d hate to be in some French-speaking area with a sweet tooth and end up with the wrong thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/2 "2012-01-29T22:51:14Z")
My Harper-Collins defines it first as “cake” and second as “biscuit”. I’m assuming they mean biscuit in the British sense of ‘cookie’. The LaRousse says the same, but goes further to say biscuit (Br), cookie (Am). ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/3 "2012-01-29T23:17:08Z")
In France, a cake is _gâteau_ and a biscuit is _petit gâteau_. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/4 "2012-01-29T23:49:33Z")
In Cameroon, gâteau will usually get you a loaf of white bread from Nigeria. It’s used pretty generically for “any bread-like product that isn’t specifically a beignet or a baguette.” ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/5 "2012-01-30T00:11:48Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > In France, a cake is _gâteau_ and a biscuit is _petit gâteau_. And a cookie is a _biscuit_. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/6 "2012-01-30T01:07:13Z")
Two comments: [ol] [li]It might be like the British usage of pudding, which can refer either to a specific kind of dessert, or dessert more generally.[/li][li]You’re thinking of the [Gâteaux derivative](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A2teaux_derivative), which is spelled slightly differently.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/7 "2012-01-30T02:25:07Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Two comments: > It might be like the British usage of pudding, which can refer either to a specific kind of dessert, or dessert more generally. I understand “meat” used to be the same way – to mean any food, not just animal flesh. Brings new meaning to the “Another Brick in the Wall” lyric. In my context of Canadian French as learned in an anglophone part of the country and barely used, cookie is “biscuit” and gateau is always “cake”. > [@](#): > > You’re thinking of the [Gâteaux derivative](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A2teaux_derivative), which is spelled slightly differently. Only in that one is the plural of the other, and doesn’t have its circumflex lazily omitted. We spend five minutes discussing this in Functional Analysis before moving on to the more useful Frechet Dervative. It only stuck with me because of the “cake” connection. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/8 "2012-01-30T03:29:37Z")
[The master speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/550/did-marie-antoinette-really-say-let-them-eat-cake) on a related subject. (“The theme is quest”…“powerful hallucinogens”…one of my favorites!) ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/9 "2012-01-30T09:14:28Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > In my context of Canadian French as learned in an anglophone part of the country and barely used, cookie is “biscuit” and gateau is always “cake”. To me, “gâteau” is a cake while “biscuit” is a cookie, but I understand that the French sometimes use “gâteau” for certain kinds of cookies. Especially, I suppose, softer ones. As far as I can tell, the most common word to describe cupcakes in French is simply “cupcake”. Though I guess “petit gâteau” would work as well. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/10 "2012-01-30T10:27:41Z")
The word \*cookie \*comes from Dutch _koekje_. Which is the word for cake plus the diminutive suffix. Cookie literally means little cake and _petit gâteau_ is an exact translation. For modern people the word _cake_ is associated with soft, fluffy, towering layer cakes lavished in frosting. But the original cakes baked by ancient peoples were small, flat, dense, not layered, not frosted. In fact, similar to today’s cookies. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/11 "2012-01-30T11:53:16Z")
There’s also the word “galette” which usually means something between a flat cake or pastry and a giant cookie. ---
**Author:** ![xnylder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbce88/32.png) [@xnylder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xnylder)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/12 "2012-01-30T22:31:52Z")
To further confuse the issue, in the last few years the word “cake” has caught on in France French (and occasionally in Quebec French) to refer to a [baked loaf](http://www.lesfoodies.com/recettes/cake), often savory. (The categories on that page are “Salty (or savory) cake”, “Sweet cake”, “Ham cake”, “Olive cake”, “Tuna cake”, and “Chocolate cake”.) ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/13 "2012-01-30T22:49:45Z")
> [@Antigen](#): > > There’s also the word “galette” which usually means something between a flat cake or pastry and a giant cookie. In Brittany, a _galette_ is either a savoury version of a crêpe, made with buckwheat flour, or a round flat butter-biscuit. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/14 "2012-01-31T06:17:44Z")
To add further to the confusion . . . What is the French word they would use to refer to the secret-little-file-on-your-computer kind of cookie? (ETA: Hey, when I first saw the title line of the OP, I immediately assumed that what it was asking about :dubious: ) ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/15 "2012-01-31T08:20:52Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > What is the French word they would use to refer to the secret-little-file-on-your-computer kind of cookie? The word is “cookie”. As in “_effacer les cookies_.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/16 "2012-02-01T05:24:22Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > The word is “cookie”. As in “_effacer les cookies_.” This surprises me, as I remember French being notorious for having to create their own terms for computer concepts, rather than just import them as other the other languages I was studying did. How is _cookie_ pronounced? as if it were spelled coukie? And is the S silent in _cookies_? ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/17 "2012-02-01T06:11:35Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > This surprises me, as I remember French being notorious for having to create their own terms for computer concepts, rather than just import them as other the other languages I was studying did. > > How is _cookie_ pronounced? as if it were spelled coukie? And is the S silent in _cookies_? Oh, don’t get me started on this. The notion that French is not welcoming of foreign loanwords is bs. French speakers are just as shameless pilferers as English speakers. It’s true that there are organisms in France and Canada that suggest alternative translations, but take a look at this page on computer terminology from the French Wikipedia: > **[Terminologie informatique](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminologie_informatique)** > > Cet article concerne les abréviations les plus courantes. Pour toutes les abréviations, voir Liste d'abréviations en informatique. > Cet article peut contenir un travail inédit ou des déclarations non vérifiées (janvier 2014). > La terminologie informatique est l'ensemble des termes et des sigles utilisés dans le domaine de l'informatique. La terminologie informatique regroupe en particulier des termes relatifs à des notions, des techniques, des normes, des produits – logiciels ou matériels, ainsi ... English borrowings dominate outrageously. There is also the word _témoin_ for cookie but it’s not used much outside of government publications. As you guessed, the final “s” is always silent. French speakers pronounce it the way they would pronounce _couquie_, in other words more or less the way “cookie” is pronounced in English. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/18 "2012-02-01T15:29:35Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > Oh, don’t get me started on this. The notion that French is not welcoming of foreign loanwords is bs. French speakers are just as shameless pilferers as English speakers. It differs between France and Canada, doesn’t it? E.g., France uses “parking” and “stop” whereas Canada uses “stationnement” and “arret”. (I’m probably just out to lunch on this.) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateau-as-cookie/611114/19 "2012-02-01T16:34:03Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > It differs between France and Canada, doesn’t it? E.g., France uses “parking” and “stop” whereas Canada uses “stationnement” and “arret”. > > (I’m probably just out to lunch on this.) No, you’re right. Quebec French uses lots of English borrowings, but they don’t have the same prestige as they have in France. When creating new terms, Quebec language authorities prefer to create French terms rather than borrow English ones. Probably the one that has caught on the best in recent years is _courriel_ for e-mail. Unlike various other such terms it’s broadly understood and commonly used in speech, and the France-French version _un mail_ isn’t used. In fact, language authorities in France sometimes look to Quebec for francized versions of terms, and _courriel_ has gotten a recommend there.