# "GATEWAY" by F. Pohl - Why is this POS on a list of "Top 100 Science Fiction Stories"? -Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 4, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098 "2011-04-04T00:24:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/21 "2011-04-05T16:32:33Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > If you want to avoid a book like the plague, there is no better choice than _Battlefield Earth_. Word. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/22 "2011-04-05T16:49:29Z")
I liked it. I haven’t read enough of the top 100 to say where it should rank in that crowd, but it’s good. It does a good job of building up the sense of dread. You know something bad is going to happen to Bob. You also know Bob is filthy rich after Gateway. It’s a good tension. I generally prefer a faster moving plot, but the pacing really works for Gateway. Slower and it would have moved into Foundation territory (a classic which I will never like, but that’s another thread). Faster and it wouldn’t have had that tension. There are aspects that haven’t aged well, to be sure. The situation on Earth, which is only alluded to, never clicked with me, for one. Still, it’s a classic. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/23 "2011-04-05T17:35:38Z")
I’ve read most (but not all) of that list and would pretty much recommend the whole thing, although I never did see all the love for _Foundation_ or _Ringworld_. Both left me cold. You could certainly do a whole lot worse than that list. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/24 "2011-04-05T18:06:48Z")
Insult RINGWORLD??!!! Pistols at dawn! ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/25 "2011-04-05T18:13:45Z")
What’s the _point_ of Ringworld? It’s just, like, a schematic with some tacked-on story. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/26 "2011-04-05T18:20:14Z")
I am too busy spluttering with outrage to respond properly! What’s the point of _Moby Dick_? What’s the point of life? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/27 "2011-04-05T18:40:33Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > What’s the _point_ of Ringworld? It’s just, like, a schematic with some tacked-on story. You say that like it was a bad thing. \*Ringworld \*is the best of the “engineering diagram as a novel” sub-genre. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/28 "2011-04-05T18:55:24Z")
Ringworld rocks! Have I mentioned that I own a personalized First Edition? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/29 "2011-04-05T18:57:30Z")
Engineering diagrams work better as short stories, IMHO. The only IDEA in Ringworld is the concept of the ringworld. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/30 "2011-04-05T19:06:22Z")
What about rishathra? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/31 "2011-04-05T19:15:45Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > What about rishathra? 😃 That wasn’t until the sequals. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/32 "2011-04-05T21:11:19Z")
I’ve got to agree about Ringworld not being that great. Niven in general was always kind of blah to me. Too much sci-, not enough -fi. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/33 "2011-04-05T21:29:35Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > You say that like it was a bad thing. \*Ringworld \*is the best of the “engineering diagram as a novel” sub-genre. Ringworld was great! ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/34 "2011-04-05T22:15:03Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > You say that like it was a bad thing. \*Ringworld \*is the best of the “engineering diagram as a novel” sub-genre. I always thought of it as a member of the "really big things " genre, which includes things like Rendezvous with Rama, Ringworld, Mission of Gravity, and others where the humans encounter something out of the ordinary and have to deal with the physics we know in a new setting. Of these, Mission of Gravity is my favorite, but the Ringworld is great too. IMO, they’re all three better than Gateway. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/35 "2011-04-05T23:22:24Z")
Rama is way better than Ringworld. Everything they do on Rama is connected to “what would it really be like to see some totally strange spacecraft? What would we do there?” Ringworld is more like “Here’s a really cool idea for a world! And then some stuff happened on it, 'cause… shit, who cares?” ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/36 "2011-04-05T23:32:35Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Rama is way better than Ringworld. Everything they do on Rama is connected to “what would it really be like to see some totally strange spacecraft? What would we do there?” Ringworld is more like “Here’s a really cool idea for a world! And then some stuff happened on it, 'cause… shit, who cares?” That’s what Niven _does_. I like him a lot better when he’s writing with a co-author. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/37 "2011-04-05T23:36:43Z")
I loved _The Mote in God’s Eye_. But that was him and somebody else, right? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/38 "2011-04-06T00:05:45Z")
I LOVED Ringworld, and its sequels. It didn’t just contain an engineering concept, it also concerned the ethics of altering another sentient species. The Puppeteers can’t keep their meddling mouths off of other species. It was also about interspecies co-operation, when members of the species really can’t trust each other. Mote and Gripping Hand were written by Niven and Pournelle. I can’t stand Pournelle’s solo efforts, but he’s pretty good with Niven. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098/39 "2011-04-06T01:56:27Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > What’s the _point_ of Ringworld? It’s just, like, a schematic with some tacked-on story. I think that’s a fair description. I just don’t agree that it means the novel is worthless. Some novels have great plots, some have great characters, and some have great settings. In _Ringworld_’s case, a really good setting carries what’s an otherwise minimal story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gateway-by-f-pohl-why-is-this-pos-on-a-list-of-top-100-science-fiction-stories-spoilers/577098.md?page=1)