# Gaudere, I believe you are in error. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 19, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897 "2004-05-19T02:53:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/21 "2004-05-19T03:40:11Z")
> [@litost](#): > > The most egregious error in this OP is the “against Iraq war = pro-Saddam” logical fallacy. I am suprised to see a Doper with a long history and good standing commit such an error. In fact, it is downright pathetic and shameful. I make no such error, nor do I believe that. I said, “Calling a person who supported the continuance of Saddam Hussein’s regime **and who continues, over and over again, to cast every new revelation, whether true or not, as ‘proof’ that overthrowing his regime was somehow evil** a ‘Saddamite’…” More to the point, this thread is not about who is or is not a Saddamist or even about supporting or opposing the Iraq war. It is about the rules in GD. I maintain that in a forum where “Republicans support torture” is allowed to exist without admonishment my construction was within the rules, whether or not reasonable people might disagree about the specific application of it. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/22 "2004-05-19T03:49:24Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > What are you talking about? Castroite? That is a bit rough. The US government does not support Casto, though the US government has been the ultimate Saddimite. > > So it would it not be in error to call Manhatten a Castroite? Perhaps a Pinochetite, Suhartoite, Mobutuite, Sharonite, Duvalierite or Somozaite. Musharrafite? Kimite? Jiabaoite? Kabilaite? This is kinda fun. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/23 "2004-05-19T03:54:34Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > More to the point, this thread is not about who is or is not a Saddamist or even about supporting or opposing the Iraq war. It is about the rules in GD. I maintain that in a forum where “Republicans support torture” is allowed to exist without admonishment my construction was within the rules, whether or not reasonable people might disagree about the specific application of it. … so I can call you a cockbite, and it is OK now? Y’know, because reasonable people might agree with the specific application of it. Go ahead, make a thread saying, “Democrats support torture.” Maybe you can post more sob stories about how much you truly and deeply care about the poor people of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/24 "2004-05-19T03:55:34Z")
**manhattan** , it’s always interesting to see what Moderators/Administrators will and will not allow. For instance, I recall a thread a while back where [url"[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=163192&highlight=airman+murderer](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=163192&highlight=airman+murderer)"] someone was allowed to refer to the United States Air Force (and therefore the members, of which I am clearly one) as “murderers”. I’m sure some of you recall that little incident. So, how does this work? It’s clear that insults are allowed if you support/supported/participated in the war or if you are a Bush supporter. I’m curious as to why that door only swings the one way. Frankly, I’d much rather be referred to as a “Saddamite” than as a “murderer”. One was OK, the other is not. And that still chafes my ass. Methinks there needs to be a bit more consistency here, guys. You either allow backhanded insults or you don’t, and if you do then the criteria should be applied evenly across the spectrum, not just when it suits your mood. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/25 "2004-05-19T03:56:42Z")
And since I’m a dumb fuck and didn’t preview, here’s that link again. [Link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=163192&highlight=airman+murderer) ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/26 "2004-05-19T03:57:07Z")
Well, to be fair, **manhattan** , you didn’t clarify your use of “Saddamites” when you used it in GD. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/27 "2004-05-19T04:01:41Z")
I suspect that had **manny** just posted the ignorant-ass claim that “Democrats support Saddam!” no moderator action would have occurred. Ponder, for a moment whether “Democrats support Saddam!” is the rhetorical equivalent of “Saddamites.” Given, of course, that they’re both incomparably ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/28 "2004-05-19T04:14:57Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > **manhattan** , it’s always interesting to see what Moderators/Administrators will and will not allow. > > For instance, I recall a thread a while back where [url"[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=163192&highlight=airman+murderer](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=163192&highlight=airman+murderer)"] someone was allowed to refer to the United States Air Force (and therefore the members, of which I am clearly one) as “murderers”. I’m sure some of you recall that little incident. Yea, didn’t we all agree that if you wear a uniform, it isn’t murder? Support your troops as they bravely carpetbomb Najaf! > [@](#): > > Frankly, I’d much rather be referred to as a “Saddamite” than as a “murderer”. One was OK, the other is not. And that still chafes my ass. I’d rather be called a murderer than a Saddamite. Does this mean that you support the regime of Saddam over the loss of a few innocent lives? Are you a Saddamite? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/29 "2004-05-19T04:27:29Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > I maintain that in a forum where “Republicans support torture” is allowed to exist without admonishment my construction was within the rules, whether or not reasonable people might disagree about the specific application of it. That OP’s _definitely_ a piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/30 "2004-05-19T04:31:21Z")
Murder is a legal distinction amongst types of homicide. Homicides resulting from duly executed, legal orders are not murder. Pretty straightforward, hard to confuse. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/31 "2004-05-19T04:42:12Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > … so I can call you a cockbite, and it is OK now? Who’s Cockb? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/32 "2004-05-19T04:44:16Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Methinks there needs to be a bit more consistency here, guys. You either allow backhanded insults or you don’t, and if you do then the criteria should be applied evenly across the spectrum, not just when it suits your mood. Occasionally firing a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hitting a camel in the butt may not be the most effective way to combat international terrorists, but it does keep the camels on their toes! ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/33 "2004-05-19T04:44:46Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Murder is a legal distinction amongst types of homicide. Homicides resulting from duly executed, legal orders are not murder. > Pretty straightforward, hard to confuse. Oooh, so government-ordered killings aren’t murder? I’ll remember that the next time I’m in Sudan. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/34 "2004-05-19T04:46:28Z")
> [@](#): > > **Airman** : Frankly, I’d much rather be referred to as a “Saddamite” than as a “murderer”. One was OK, the other is not. And that still chafes my ass. I don’t see much difference in the connotation of the two. Saddam was murderous. A _Saddamite_ or _Saddamist_ would, by inference, be one who supports murder or at least this murderous villian. I cannot understand how anyone who gave this serious thought could make a such an illogical jump by labelling someone who supports peaceful negotiation as a _Saddamite_. It is also mean-spirited, shortsighted and inflammatory. I don’t know of _anyone_ at SDMB who has supported Saddam. Such distortions and attacks are cheapshots and unworthy of GD. If an argument has to depend on complete distortion of reality, then that debater has lost the debate. BTW, **Airman** , I am not generally pro-military about much of anything. But the most noble person that I have ever known was a graduate of the Air Force Academy. He was my friend for 58 years. Further, nothing in this post should be construed against you. I used your quote, but my comments are for the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/35 "2004-05-19T04:54:02Z")
You know what, **Zoe**? That was some pretty good insight. I didn’t see it quite that way until now. Thank you. 🙂 All the same, the point stands that there needs to be more consistent application of what constitutes an insult and who it is applied to. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/36 "2004-05-19T04:58:54Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I cannot understand how anyone who gave this serious thought could make a such an illogical jump by labelling someone who supports peaceful negotiation as a _Saddamite_. It is also mean-spirited, shortsighted and inflammatory. Remember McCarthy? Same deal. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/37 "2004-05-19T05:31:36Z")
I think D’Aubuissonite has a bit of a ring to it. Let’s here it for all those in favour of murdering nuns! ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/38 "2004-05-19T06:18:36Z")
Look people, Manhattan may be an ass, _but Saddam Hussein was much worse._ Therefore, he’s a great guy, no harm done. ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/39 "2004-05-19T06:42:22Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > I make no such error, nor do I believe that. I said, “Calling a person who supported the continuance of Saddam Hussein’s regime **and who continues, over and over again, to cast every new revelation, whether true or not, as ‘proof’ that overthrowing his regime was somehow evil** a ‘Saddamite’…” > > More to the point, this thread is not about who is or is not a Saddamist or even about supporting or opposing the Iraq war. It is about the rules in GD. I maintain that in a forum where “Republicans support torture” is allowed to exist without admonishment my construction was within the rules, whether or not reasonable people might disagree about the specific application of it. You know what, I am with you on the OP. I don’t find your use of the word “Saddamite” any worse than the example you quoted. But, I sure hope that is not the standard of debate you want to aspire to! As per your definition above, any individual who is vehemently opposed to the war could be called a Saddamite. Can you tell me what revelations we have seen thus far that should convince the war skeptics? In fact, even under the assumption that SH had WMD, there were many people against overthrowing his regime by force. Are we Saddamites too? I think it is likely that some of the anti-war crowd loathe Bush and tend to spin every news from Iraq against Bush. It doesn’t imply any support for SH’s regime. Better yet: you started off your post in that thread addressing a bunch of Dopers as Saddamites. Why don’t you list some of their names and show me how they have continually supported SH’s regime? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/40 "2004-05-19T09:34:58Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=256709) , you admonish me for my use of the term “Saddamites” to describe those who supported the continuance of Saddam Hussein’s murderous, terror-supporting regime. **Manhattan** , I don’t think repeating and defending your (silly) insult will earn you an apology. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897.md?page=3)