# Gaudere, I believe you are in error. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 19, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897 "2004-05-19T02:53:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/161 "2004-05-22T19:44:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t forget Senggüm, another shining example of the Bill O’Reilly school of Republican Non-Think. \ See, here’s the problem. People like **rjung** consider their opponents to be ‘putzes’ simply because they are on the right. This lovely attitude shines through in all his posts. But we’re not discussing who is stupid, or misinformed, or guilty of ‘Republican non-think’. We’re talking about NOT BEHAVING LIKE A PRICK IN GREAT DEBATES. We know you hold your opponents in contempt. You’ve made that abundantly clear, as have a bunch of other posters on this board. The question is whether you can control your infantile temper enough to have a reasoned discussion with people of opposing viewpoints without spitting all over them. Personally, I have my doubts. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/162 "2004-05-22T21:49:35Z")
**Sam** : > [@](#): > > - The problem is that the posters on the left on this board are, as a group, much nastier than those on the right. There are no right-wing equivalents of **ElvisL1ves** or **rjung** - posters who just troll the board looking for ‘stupid’ comments so they can dive-bomb a thread with insults and leave. Even the most obnoxious right-wing posters can’t hold a candle to **Diogenes the Cynic** or **Aldebaaran** or **Evil Captor** when it comes to spittle-flinging hatred of their opponents.\* ? This certainly doesn’t jive with my experience of GD. Quite the contrary, in fact; many of the right-wingers on the boards post extremely vitriolic, content-free tripe. Neither side has a monopoly on that sort of inflammatory rhetoric, and I seriously doubt anything constructive can be done about it (other than encouraging the participants to tone it down a notch). > [@](#): > > _See, here’s the problem. People like **rjung** consider their opponents to be ‘putzes’ simply because they are on the right. This lovely attitude shines through in all his posts._ Not to speak for **rjung** , but I don’t think that’s a very fair accusation. You’ve got to separate the _content of the post_ from the poster’s _political ideology_. If a poster’s full of shit, then he’s full of shit regardless of politics; and **Senggüm** appears to be full of shit. In contrast, **Simon X** is registered Republican, yet I’ve never seen **rjung** attack his posts in that manner. Having said that, I can see why one might reasonably take offense at **rjung’s** statement. If you are a Republican you might resent being lumped in with an idjit like **Senggüm** under the category of “group think,” much in the same way I resented **manhattan’s** use of the epithet “loony Saddamite” to describe those of us who oppose the war. > [@](#): > > _But we’re not discussing who is stupid, or misinformed, or guilty of ‘Republican non-think’. We’re talking about NOT BEHAVING LIKE A PRICK IN GREAT DEBATES._ Actually, _you_ wrote that you thought no one could hold a candle to **Elvis** , **rjung** , etc., when it comes to “spittle-flinging hatred.” **rjung** is merely presenting a counter-example. And when it comes to BEHAVING LIKE A PRICK IN GREAT DEBATES, **Senggüm** certainly qualifies. Why on earth would you bring this up, and then try to disqualify any responses that provide contrary evidence? ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/163 "2004-05-22T22:36:27Z")
Personally, I don’t think it’s fair to try and chain **Senggüm** to any one idealogical/political side. He’s just plain nuts–enough to go around the whole spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/164 "2004-05-22T22:39:06Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > See, here’s the problem. People like **rjung** consider their opponents to be ‘putzes’ simply because they are on the right. This lovely attitude shines through in all his posts. Bill O Reilly is not my opponent but he is indeed a putz. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/165 "2004-05-23T08:06:32Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > People like **rjung** consider their opponents to be ‘putzes’ simply because they are on the right. Nonsense; I call people putzes because they act like putzes. Just because a large number of them are on the right doesn’t mean I limit myself to that bunch – I’ve certainly not hesitated in dinking **Reeder** when he drops off the deep end, for example. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > This lovely attitude shines through in all his posts. Yeah, all those posts I pop in Cafe Society and General Questions are just _reeking_ with conserva-bash agiprop. You know how hard it is to squeeze in an anti-Bushtirade in a discussion of '80s TV cartoons? Someone give **Sam Stone** a few 2 x 4s and let him be done with the self-crucifiction already. :rolleyes: I’d accompany on the fiddle, but I lost the itsy-bitsy bow in the carpet somewhere… ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/166 "2004-05-23T19:16:22Z")
So let me get this straight - you’re allowed to run around in Great Debates being a prick in violation of the rules, and my only choices are to violate the rules and get into a pissing match with you, or just ‘take it’. Because if I actually, say, complain about it, then I’m just martyring myself. Is that about it? See, if you do that in the pit, I won’t complain. Because I am free to just turn around and call you an obnoxious, foul tempered, elitist asshole. But since I don’t want to violate the rules of Great Debates, my only options are to either take your crap, or complain about it here or to the mods. So piss off. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/167 "2004-05-23T22:28:38Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > So let me get this straight - you’re allowed to run around in Great Debates being a prick in violation of the rules, and my only choices are to violate the rules and get into a pissing match with you, or just ‘take it’. Because if I actually, say, complain about it, then I’m just martyring myself. Is that about it? Assuming for a moment you’re addressing me… “Being a prick” is a subjective judgement on your part, which means diddly/squat on the boards. The judgement of the moderators is what matters, and if they feel someone has crossed over the line, then they will take corrective action as they deem appropriate. Conversely, if they _don’t_ believe someone has broken the rules, then any perceived offense resides solely within your own overheated imagination – at which point, yes, you _are_ expected to “just take it.” ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/168 "2004-05-23T23:02:35Z")
I have just returned from a weekend with my baby daughter’s baby daughter. She is three weeks old. It is my fervent hope that when she is five years old she will avoid the sort of ten day temper tantrum this thread has turned into. You kids settle down and go to bed! Five pages of declaring various and sundry fellow Dopers to be big stupid heads is hardly constructive (even if some of them are indeed big stupid heads). You have sat here long enough; for the love of God, begone… ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/169 "2004-05-23T23:20:41Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > I have just returned from a weekend with my baby daughter’s baby daughter. She is three weeks old. It is my fervent hope that when she is five years old she will avoid the sort of ten day temper tantrum this thread has turned into. You kids settle down and go to bed! Five pages of declaring various and sundry fellow Dopers to be big stupid heads is hardly constructive (even if some of them are indeed big stupid heads). You have sat here long enough; for the love of God, begone… Well put. And congrats on becoming a grand\_\_\_\_\_\_(?) Is it your first? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/170 "2004-05-23T23:27:37Z")
Thank you. First grandchild. I aged about 30 years in 3 days. I’m pretty goofy about it but not as goofy as my wife. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/171 "2004-05-23T23:43:32Z")
Well that is excellent news indeed. Though hopefully the many years of joy she brings you will reverse some of that sudden aging… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/172 "2004-05-24T00:24:18Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > More to the point, this thread is not about who is or is not a Saddamist or even about supporting or opposing the Iraq war. It is about the rules in GD. I maintain that in a forum where “Republicans support torture” is allowed to exist without admonishment my construction was within the rules, whether or not reasonable people might disagree about the specific application of it. The difference between my thread and yours is that I offered a logical chain to support my conclusion, which was made within the context of the events of Abu Ghraib and the allegations by Seymour Hirsch that Rumsfeld and Rice signed off on the use of torture there. I didn’t come up with it out of the blue. There were ACTUAL EVENTS to support my allegations. By comparison, “Saddamites” is simple name-calling. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/173 "2004-05-24T00:42:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because EC is an idiot, he gets a pass on posting something idiotic. Because **manny** is pretty smart, he doesn’t get a pass on posting something idiotic. > > I believe this standard needs to be completely revised if this board is to maintain its current mission statement. I get to ride the special ISP to SDMB, nanner-nanner doo-doo! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/174 "2004-05-24T00:47:46Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#): > > As for spiraling down into personal attacks, I see much less of that in this Pit thread than there have been in others, on less divisive topics (widescreen DVD vs. fullscreen, anyone?). I can think of one person who’s been called names a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/175 "2004-05-24T05:51:05Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I can think of one person who’s been called names a lot. Well yeah, by page 4. As of the point when I posted that, there hadn’t been nearly as much name-calling as in the Great Widescreen Debacle. It’s gone a bit downhill since then. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/176 "2004-05-24T17:12:07Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > Five pages of declaring various and sundry fellow Dopers to be big stupid heads is hardly constructive (even if some of them are indeed big stupid heads). You have sat here long enough; for the love of God, begone… I’m a big fan of calls for calm in general. In this case though I feel that **manhattan** should be made to answer for his behavior. I realize it is easier to live with your own hatred of someone else if you think they are some sort of subhuman scum, but his tendancy to denigrate his fellow posters with proclimations that they are “pro-Saddam” or “pro-child prostitution” is a real problem. This kind of distorted worldview can lead to nothing but divisiveness and continued conflict. Ultimately though, it is **his** problem, so I’m ok to let it drop. Someday it will bite him in the ass and he’ll either face it or suffer the loss of opportunities which come from trying to impose your own worldview on the world. It does mean he makes my short list though. I’ve no use for chickenshits. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/177 "2004-05-25T11:49:48Z")
Over in the “Rush Limbaugh IS a big fat idiot” we have reports that Rush Limbaugh is defending the use of torture by U.S. military and we have Brutus doing the same. I await heartfelt apologies from most of the posters on this thread. Don’t worry, I’ll be patient. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/178 "2004-05-25T15:25:01Z")
Okay, okay, ferchrissakes, I’m sorry that Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot and Brutus is a horse’s ass! I don’t know WHY it’s my fault but I’m sure it IS! ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897/179 "2004-05-26T20:58:58Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > However, I see enough nastiness that goes unremarked by members of _all_ the factions that I don’t really see much favoritism. - what he said. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > My posting frequency in Great Debates has gone way down. Not because I don’t find the threads interesting, but because I often look at the participants and think, “Do I really want to deal with the shitstorm of abuse I’m going to get if I voice an opinion?” Mine has damn near disappeared for the same sorts of reason, seeing the crap from both sides. so I disagree w/your assesment that the right wingers don’t participate in the bullshit. as for the OP - I found the tactics/comments of **both** reprehensible and indefensible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaudere-i-believe-you-are-in-error/245897.md?page=8)