# Gauge The North Korean Threat **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 1, 2018, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670 "2018-01-01T03:05:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/181 "2018-01-17T18:26:36Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’ve answered them. The problem is, this conflict has dimensions you’re not familiar with, so you out of ignorance you make the assumption that I’m not answering your questions. Well, OK then. I appreciate you being patient with me. You posted this comment: > [@asahi](#): > > I wasn’t sure what his angle was - it could be ‘ridiculous’ for any number of reasons. . . . in response to this question: > [@spifflog](#): > > My goodness to you have any idea what you’re advocating? The NK army has approximately 900,000 personnel. The SK military has about 495,000. The US has about . . . 23,000 in Korea. Conventional wisdom during the cold war was that for (non-nuclear) battles, the attacker needs a 3:1 advantage in attackers. During the Gulf war, while the allies didn’t have that advantage, they did have clear and overwhelming air superiority, and the attackers had been preparing for the invasion in theater for months. There is no way that the 23,000 Americans manning the line in Korea can in a moments notice begin offensive operations against NK. I know you’re convinced that the Pentagon is just comping at the bit to invade, but this is ludicrous. . . Come on now **asahi** do you really not understand what I felt was ridiculous [_sic_]?? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/182 "2018-01-17T19:28:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nice goalpost moving there. Where did I say anything about UK or France? or “since the early 1900s”? I just said that that the Iraq war by the Shrub was supposed by many to be about oil, but it turned out not to be. > > It turned out being about the Shrub getting even for his Daddy and his cronies getting rich. No goalposts moved. It had a TON to do with oil, not just the oil in Iraq but the oil in the entire region. What exactly do you think it “turned out to be” about anyway? Freedom? Stockpiles of chemical weapons? Al Qaida? If Iraq “turned out to be” about something other than oil…it’s because Bush & Co so badly fucked up the occupation and the administration of post-Saddam Iraq that they could no longer focus on the oil. Even now, though, US involvement in the Middle East has a lot to do with oil. We’re not living in a post-oil world. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/183 "2018-01-17T19:33:17Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > No goalposts moved. It had a TON to do with oil, not just the oil in Iraq but the oil in the entire region. What exactly do you think it “turned out to be” about anyway? Freedom? Stockpiles of chemical weapons? Al Qaida? If Iraq “turned out to be” about something other than oil…it’s because Bush & Co so badly fucked up the occupation and the administration of post-Saddam Iraq that they could no longer focus on the oil. Even now, though, US involvement in the Middle East has a lot to do with oil. We’re not living in a post-oil world. You moved the goalposts to include two other nations and about 100 years of history. \*“What exactly do you think it “turned out to be” about anyway?” \* It’s right there in my post. “It turned out being about the Shrub getting even for his Daddy and his cronies getting rich.” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/184 "2018-01-17T19:41:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You moved the goalposts to include two other nations and about 100 years of history. > \*“What exactly do you think it “turned out to be” about anyway?” \* > > It’s right there in my post. “It turned out being about the Shrub getting even for his Daddy and his cronies getting rich.” Ok. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/185 "2018-01-17T20:54:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Maybe or maybe not. Kim is already currently “seriously annoying the Chinese” they might welcome some issues if it leads to long term stability in the region. Especially as they could then make NK a puppet state. Doubtful, though at a guess Xi would probably have mixed feelings if Kimmy 3.0 were to develop fatal lead poisoning. The thing is, China isn’t actually a monolith with everyone marching in lock step…there are factions who have supported North Korea and even, covertly, assisted with their nuclear weapons development as well as rocket development programs (both because they support NK and to embarrass Xi and his faction) and who wouldn’t be too keen. Even on Xi’s side/faction, they are more interested in maintaining the status quo, not having the regime go down completely. From the public perspective, I think a lot of Chinese citizens aren’t too happy with North Korea for a variety of reasons, but they also wouldn’t be too happy with the flood of refugees that would almost certainly be crossing the Chinese border and flooding the northern provinces. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/186 "2018-01-18T01:16:58Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Saying that you’re selectively quoting an article isn’t actually an insult at all. It’s a criticism of your debate tactic of quoting what fits into your political narrative and discarding what does not. > > That’s what I have to say, and I think it’s the third time I said it. what factual part of the article do you think I ignored? ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/187 "2018-01-18T09:12:55Z")
[Compilation of Fox hosts calling for first strike on North Korea, some suggesting to nuke them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Gnb-IWbBAk) Great guys… you finally have a President as your #1 fan and you use that pulpit to preach nuclear annihilation. What journalism class covered inciting genocide, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/188 "2018-02-08T09:00:27Z")
Henry Kissinger: [Pre-emptive nuclear strike on North Korea is “Tempting, strong and the argument rational”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E867ZVZT414) > **[Henry Kissinger: Nuclear first strike on North Korea is 'tempting'](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5344473/Kissinger-Nuclear-strike-North-Korea-tempting.html)** > > Former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger has warned that the most immediate challenge to international security is posed by the evolution of the North Korean nuclear program. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/189 "2018-02-08T15:48:53Z")
The US is sometimes likened to the World’s Policeman, when it’s more like the World’s George Zimmerman. It would be incompetence if Korean leaders didn’t arm themselves to deter the sorts of behavior that made Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria into post-Apocalyptic wastelands. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/190 "2018-02-08T17:27:13Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > The US is sometimes likened to the World’s Policeman, when it’s more like the World’s George Zimmerman. > > It would be incompetence if Korean leaders didn’t arm themselves to deter the sorts of behavior that made Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria into post-Apocalyptic wastelands. Arming themselves (with nuclear weapons) is what has people (semi-)seriously discussing if we should nuke them preemptively. If they hadn’t been pursuing nuclear weapons and ICBMs, do you honestly think we’d be talking about bloodying their nose or nuking them? I don’t. Things were relatively stable and safe for decades prior to their pursuit of nuclear weapons, and even though they were relatively defenseless (no nukes or ICBMs) we didn’t invade or attack them. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/191 "2018-02-08T19:01:21Z")
> [@AI\_Proofreader](#): > > Henry Kissinger: [Pre-emptive nuclear strike on North Korea is “Tempting, strong and the argument rational”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E867ZVZT414) > [Kissinger: Nuclear first strike on North Korea 'tempting' | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5344473/Kissinger-Nuclear-strike-North-Korea-tempting.html) Has Kissinger ever seen an opposing country he doesn’t want to bomb? ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/192 "2018-02-08T19:02:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Arming themselves (with nuclear weapons) is what has people (semi-)seriously discussing if we should nuke them preemptively. If they hadn’t been pursuing nuclear weapons and ICBMs, do you honestly think we’d be talking about bloodying their nose or nuking them? I don’t. Things were relatively stable and safe for decades prior to their pursuit of nuclear weapons, and even though they were relatively defenseless (no nukes or ICBMs) we didn’t invade or attack them. Korea has been under threat for a good long time - even during those moments when people like us aren’t discussing it. I suspect even during those times we might be more interested in discussing other interesting topics, the military threat is never far from the minds of the Koreans. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/193 "2018-02-08T22:50:50Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > The US is sometimes likened to the World’s Policeman, when it’s more like the World’s George Zimmerman. > > It would be incompetence if Korean leaders didn’t arm themselves to deter the sorts of behavior that made Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria into post-Apocalyptic wastelands. Libya? 😕 But it’s not deterrence, it’s promoting. Do we threaten Albania Algeria Andorra Angola Antigua and Barbuda Argentina Armenia Aruba Australia Austria Azerbaijan Bahamas, The Bahrain Bangladesh Barbados Belarus Belgium Belize Benin Bhutan Bolivia Bosnia and Herzegovina Botswana Brazil Brunei Bulgaria Burkina Faso Burundi Cameroon Canada Cabo Verde Central African Republic Chad Chile Colombia Comoros Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Republic of the Costa Rica Cote d’Ivoire Croatia Curacao Cyprus Czechia Denmark Djibouti Dominica Dominican Republic East Timor (see Timor-Leste) Ecuador Egypt El Salvador Equatorial Guinea Eritrea Estonia Ethiopia Fiji Finland France Gabon Gambia, The Georgia Germany Ghana Greece Grenada Guatemala Guinea Guinea-Bissau Guyana Haiti Holy See Honduras Hong Kong Iceland India Indonesia Ireland Israel Italy Jamaica Japan Kazakhstan Kenya Kiribati Korea, South Kosovo Kuwait Kyrgyzstan Latvia Lebanon Lesotho Liberia Liechtenstein Lithuania Luxembourg Macau Macedonia Madagascar Malawi Malaysia Maldives Mali Malta Marshall Islands Mauritania Mauritius Mexico Micronesia Moldova Monaco Mongolia Montenegro Morocco Mozambique Namibia Nauru Nepal Netherlands New Zealand Nicaragua Niger Nigeria Norway Oman Pakistan Palau Panama Papua New Guinea Paraguay Peru Philippines Poland Portugal Qatar Romania Rwanda Saint Kitts and Nevis Saint Lucia Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Samoa San Marino Sao Tome and Principe Senegal Serbia Seychelles Sierra Leone Singapore Sint Maarten Slovakia Slovenia Solomon Islands Somalia South Africa South Korea Spain Sri Lanka Suriname Swaziland Sweden Switzerland Taiwan Tajikistan Tanzania Thailand Timor-Leste Togo Tonga Trinidad and Tobago Tunisia Turkey Turkmenistan Tuvalu Uganda Ukraine United Kingdom Uruguay Uzbekistan Vanuatu Venezuela Vietnam Zambia Zimbabwe? If you make yourself a threat then you become a target. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670/194 "2018-02-09T19:01:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Libya? 😕 > > But it’s not deterrence, it’s promoting. > > Do we threaten > Albania > Algeria > Andorra > Angola > Antigua and Barbuda > Argentina > Armenia > Aruba > Australia > Austria > Azerbaijan > > Bahamas, The > Bahrain > Bangladesh > Barbados > Belarus > Belgium > Belize > Benin > Bhutan > Bolivia > Bosnia and Herzegovina > Botswana > Brazil > Brunei > Bulgaria > Burkina Faso > Burundi > Cameroon > Canada > Cabo Verde > Central African Republic > Chad > Chile > Colombia > Comoros > Congo, Democratic Republic of the > Congo, Republic of the > Costa Rica > Cote d’Ivoire > Croatia > Curacao > Cyprus > Czechia > Denmark > Djibouti > Dominica > Dominican Republic > East Timor (see Timor-Leste) > Ecuador > Egypt > El Salvador > Equatorial Guinea > Eritrea > Estonia > Ethiopia > Fiji > Finland > France > Gabon > Gambia, The > Georgia > Germany > Ghana > Greece > Grenada > Guatemala > Guinea > Guinea-Bissau > Guyana > Haiti > Holy See > Honduras > Hong Kong > Iceland > India > Indonesia > Ireland > Israel > Italy > Jamaica > Japan > Kazakhstan > Kenya > Kiribati > Korea, South > Kosovo > Kuwait > Kyrgyzstan > Latvia > Lebanon > Lesotho > Liberia > Liechtenstein > Lithuania > Luxembourg > Macau > Macedonia > Madagascar > Malawi > Malaysia > Maldives > Mali > Malta > Marshall Islands > Mauritania > Mauritius > Mexico > Micronesia > Moldova > Monaco > Mongolia > Montenegro > Morocco > Mozambique > Namibia > Nauru > Nepal > Netherlands > New Zealand > Nicaragua > Niger > Nigeria > Norway > Oman > Pakistan > Palau > Panama > Papua New Guinea > Paraguay > Peru > Philippines > Poland > Portugal > Qatar > Romania > Rwanda > Saint Kitts and Nevis > Saint Lucia > Saint Vincent and the Grenadines > Samoa > San Marino > Sao Tome and Principe > Senegal > Serbia > Seychelles > Sierra Leone > Singapore > Sint Maarten > Slovakia > Slovenia > Solomon Islands > Somalia > South Africa > South Korea > Spain > Sri Lanka > Suriname > Swaziland > Sweden > Switzerland > Taiwan > Tajikistan > Tanzania > Thailand > Timor-Leste > Togo > Tonga > Trinidad and Tobago > Tunisia > Turkey > Turkmenistan > Tuvalu > Uganda > Ukraine > United Kingdom > Uruguay > Uzbekistan > Vanuatu > Venezuela > Vietnam > > Zambia > Zimbabwe? > If you make yourself a threat then you become a target. No, AFAICT Korea doesn’t threaten any of those. How many on your list has US military in them, targeted by US espionage, or undergoing US diplomatic pressure campaigns? If you make yourself a threat then you become a target. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gauge-the-north-korean-threat/805670.md?page=9)