# Gavels (and maces) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [March 16, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663 "2018-03-16T13:40:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/1 "2018-03-16T13:40:02Z")
> **[How did the gavel end up in American courtrooms?](https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/9516/how-did-the-gavel-end-up-in-american-courtrooms/)** UK courtrooms may not use the gavel but don’t they (at least sometimes) use the mace? i.e., that staff they bang three times on the floor and say “hear ye, hear ye”, or something like that? Or am I thinking of sessions of Parliament? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/2 "2018-03-16T22:18:14Z")
There’s a twitter account called Inappropriate Gavels that fulminates against UK media/film/TV illustrating British justice with gavels. [https://twitter.com/igavels?lang=en](https://twitter.com/igavels?lang=en) There’s a seemingly inexhaustible supply of material (mostly because of the lazy use of stock images, I suspect) ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/3 "2018-03-16T22:21:17Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > UK courtrooms may not use the gavel but don’t they (at least sometimes) use the mace? i.e., that staff they bang three times on the floor and say “hear ye, hear ye”, or something like that? Or am I thinking of sessions of Parliament? Maces are a Royalty/Parliament thing mostly > **[Ceremonial mace | United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_mace#United_Kingdom)** > > In the United Kingdom there are thirteen surviving royal maces in the Crown Jewels, ten of which are kept in the Jewel House at the Tower of London, while three are on permanent loan to the Houses of Parliament. Each mace is about 1.5 m (4.9 ft) long and weighs an average of 10 kg (22 lb). The House of Commons can only operate lawfully when the royal mace – dating from the reign of Charles II – is present at the table. Two other maces dating from the reigns of Charles II and William III are us ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/4 "2018-03-17T02:02:11Z")
“Useless tool.” Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/5 "2018-03-21T01:36:05Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > [https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/9516/how-did-the-gavel-end-up-in-american-courtrooms/](https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/9516/how-did-the-gavel-end-up-in-american-courtrooms/) > > UK courtrooms may not use the gavel but don’t they (at least sometimes) use the mace? i.e., that staff they bang three times on the floor and say “hear ye, hear ye”, or something like that? Or am I thinking of sessions of Parliament? If they did, it would be called a tipstaff, not a mace. I’ve never seen one. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/6 "2018-03-21T17:32:02Z")
Thumping a staff on the floor three times is a tradition at the Comédie Française in Paris, as that was what used to be done to announce the start of theatrical performances in the 17th (and 18th?) centuries. It was also the way orchestras were conducted (the composer Lully died as a result of an infection when he managed to thump his staff on his own foot). But I’ve never heard of it in the UK: maces are carried in ceremonial processions as a symbol of authority, not just in [Parliament](http://www.zipang.org.uk/images/191117/mace.htm)or for the judiciary, but often for occasional ceremonials in local government (one of my great-uncles was Macer for Edinburgh City Council), universities and organisations like City livery companies, but AFAIK they’re just shown - too expensive to be whacked on a floor - and court ushers and clerks just use a stentorian voice for any calling a court into session. If there’s any “Hear ye!” to be done, these days it’s just the surviving [Town Criers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_crier) - and they use a handbell. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/7 "2018-03-21T19:32:54Z")
How do you search the Front page archive now? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/8 "2018-03-21T20:01:16Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > If they did, it would be called a tipstaff, not a mace. I’ve never seen one. Ignorance fought, although the reserves are limitless. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/9 "2018-03-22T03:33:50Z")
Gilbert’s own illustration for _Trial by Jury_ shows the Usher with a tipstaff. Note that Gilbert was a barrister, and noted that the set, costumes, _etc.,_ should be as realistic as possible. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/10 "2018-03-22T13:46:00Z")
the last bit of Cecil’s column seems to line up with my experience. the two times I’ve been in a courtroom (voir dire) I didn’t even see if the judge had a gavel on the bench. IIRC it’s when the judge says “Court is now in session” that everything becomes on-the-record official proceedings. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/11 "2018-03-22T15:29:59Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Maces are a Royalty/Parliament thing mostly > > [Ceremonial mace - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_mace#United_Kingdom) And see: A British MP once got in trouble for picking up the House of Commons’s mace and brandishing it during a debate: [BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Mace - Commons](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/82544.stm) The U.S. House of Representatives has a mace: [Mace of the United States House of Representatives - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives) As does the Virginia House of Delegates: [Mace of the Virginia House of Delegates - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_of_the_Virginia_House_of_Delegates) The South Carolina Senate has a state sword, of all things! Scroll down here: [South Carolina State House | South Carolina State Symbols](https://www.scstatehouse.gov/studentpage/coolstuff/seal.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/12 "2018-03-22T16:31:23Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > And see: > > The South Carolina Senate has a state sword, of all things! Scroll down here: [South Carolina State House | South Carolina State Symbols](https://www.scstatehouse.gov/studentpage/coolstuff/seal.shtml) South Carolina also has a mace for the House of Representatives. According to the link you provided regarding our sword, the mace is the only state ceremonial mace still in existence that was made prior to the Revolution. Yeah, South Carolina can be all about the pomp at times. Indeed, we’ve been called pompous before. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/13 "2018-03-26T23:54:46Z")
While re-reading this, a thought sprang to mind about the Bailiffs mace. I have no idea where I got the idea that a Bailiff carries a “mace” but www confirms that it’s true: traditionally they do. The web tells me that the Bailiffs mace is far removed from the idea of a weapon: it is explicitly a symbol of authority, like a police badge or warrant card. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/14 "2018-03-27T04:21:08Z")
all the Canadian legislatures have maces. If it’s on the clerks’ table, that means the House is in session. If it’s in the hooks on the end of the table, that means the House is sitting in committee. No gavels in any Canadian court I’ve ever been in. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/15 "2018-04-03T15:20:27Z")
There have never been gavels in Canadian courts. It doesn’t stop many news websites from using gavels in their generic court photo images. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/16 "2018-04-03T15:38:03Z")
> [@](#): > > If it’s on the clerks’ table, that means the House is in session. If it’s in the hooks on the end of the table, that means the House is sitting in committee. And if it’s being carried by the [sergeant-at-arms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Vickers), it means he’s about to use it to smash the head of an ISIS gunman. (yes, yes, I know that he actually used a pistol in that incident, but it’s still an amusing image) ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/17 "2018-04-04T01:35:21Z")
I don’t know about Canada, but the ceremonial maces in the UK have evolved so far from their origins as weapons that they have tiny warheads and huge decorative pommels. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/18 "2018-04-06T04:34:51Z")
I wouldn’t want the Sergeant-at-Arms to wallop me on the head with the [current Canadian mace](https://www.ourcommons.ca/About/HistoryArtsArchitecture/collection_profiles/CP_mace-e.htm). Looks like it would hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/19 "2018-04-06T14:32:43Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I wouldn’t want the Sergeant-at-Arms to wallop me on the head with the [current Canadian mace](https://www.ourcommons.ca/About/HistoryArtsArchitecture/collection_profiles/CP_mace-e.htm). Looks like it would hurt. Technically, isn’t the monarch of the Commonwealth the only person legally entitled to actually use it as a weapon? ( 😛 ) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663/20 "2018-04-25T04:12:39Z")
Some zany hijinks recently with the Nigerian Senate’s mace: [https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/19/africa/nigerians-senate-mace-found/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/19/africa/nigerians-senate-mace-found/index.html) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gavels-and-maces/810663.md?page=2)