# Gay activists flip off Reagan's picture **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2012, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042 "2012-06-23T06:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/181 "2012-06-28T01:17:24Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Can’t wait to see how much of a “no biggie” this is when the image is used by those fighting against the expansion of some gay rights initiative on a ballot somewhere. And it will be. But we’ll all just have to wait and see, won’t we? A picture of a painting of Reagan getting the finger? I remember when the homosexual menace used to be something. We’ve lived down far worse propaganda, and are slowly but surely winning. A couple hysterical crybabies are going to scream about this to their dozens of followers, who will be outraged, I’m sure. But if there’s somebody out there who is contemplating coming around on the marriage issue, they’ve already managed to put aside far worse anti-gay propaganda. And if there’s somebody out there that was all fine and dandy about gay marriage until they saw this picture, they’re a completely irrational idiot, and making decisions based on what such a person thinks is an exercise in futility. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/182 "2012-06-28T01:23:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’m not sure I get your meaning, but your oblique ad hominems matter not. Time will prove me correct: the image will pop up the next time an issue of gay rights or SSM is on the ballot somewhere. You don’t get what “copyright law” or “concern troll” mean? Goddamn, you are just epically stupid, aren’t you? Anyway, even if those images are used, it still won’t matter, because, again, the votes on marriage equality are not going to be decided by hand-wringing concern trolls. Sure, it makes sense for people like you to try to gin up the faux-outrage on issues like this, but you’re playing your cards wrong if you blow them on this outrage of the day, especially given that it’s months until November, because this is going to affect exactly zero people’s opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/183 "2012-06-28T03:54:50Z")
nyx, you tend to refer to everyone who disagrees with you in the slightest on a gay rights issue a concern troll. Might want to give that a rest. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/184 "2012-06-28T04:00:19Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Do you believe that if you post your juvenile, hair-splitting attempt to occupy the middle ground enough times in this thread, it’ll magically become something worth hearing, rather than just irrelevant background noise? Do you believe that juvenile stunts meant to draw attention to a cause are ever taken seriously, or provoke actual discussion? ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/185 "2012-06-28T04:06:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > nyx, you tend to refer to everyone who disagrees with you in the slightest on a gay rights issue a concern troll. Might want to give that a rest. I don’t know about others, but **magellan01** doesn’t particularly give a shit about gay rights, other than to strenuously argue that they be kept at least slightly less than straight people’s rights, and I’d say it’s perfectly acceptable to assume that whatever advice he has about how to effectively argue in favor of gay rights is probably shaped more by his hostility to the matter than by any actual concern for advancing the cause. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/186 "2012-06-28T04:12:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > nyx, you tend to refer to everyone who disagrees with you in the slightest on a gay rights issue a concern troll. Might want to give that a rest. So you disagree that his posts in this thread are concern trolling? Really? Meanwhile, I don’t know what motivates your little ad hominem there. I tend to refer to people engaging in obvious concern trolling as concern trolls. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Do you believe that juvenile stunts meant to draw attention to a cause are ever taken seriously, or provoke actual discussion? Point to where I said that. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/187 "2012-06-28T20:33:10Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > And yet somehow I still just don’t give a crap about this and I haven’t yet seen why I should. You really are dumb. Is it so beyond your comprehension that the reason people don’t support gay people is because they think they are immoral reprobates? And that, thus, proving it would thus allow them to defend their position? Combined with how you attacked astro for trying to defend the cause, I will say what I’ve wanted to say to you for a while: People like you are the reason why I was anti-gay for the first 20 years of my life. Luckily I’ve grown up a bit. Hopefully you will too someday. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/188 "2012-06-28T23:05:11Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Is it so beyond your comprehension that the reason people don’t support gay people is because they think they are immoral reprobates? _Pretttttty_ fucking sure that the reason they think gay people are immoral in the first place is because of the whole sex with people of the same gender thingie. Do you honestly think that anyone who wasn’t predisposed to hate gay people would have their opinions swayed about gay people in general based on something that 3 or 4 gay people did? Do you really think that what they did was “immoral” instead of just juvenile and impolitic? > [@BigT](#): > > People like you are the reason why I was anti-gay for the first 20 years of my life. Luckily I’ve grown up a bit. Hopefully you will too someday. You “were” anti-gay because you were a goddamn bigot. No one else made you be a goddamn bigot. The fact that you try to project the reasons for your goddamn bigotry onto the victims of it just shows that you are still, if not a bigot\*, a goddamn idiot. But of course, everyone here already knows that. \*for the sake of argument, let’s say ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/189 "2012-06-28T23:10:01Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You really are dumb. Is it so beyond your comprehension that the reason people don’t support gay people is because they think they are immoral reprobates? And that, thus, proving it would thus allow them to defend their position? > > Combined with how you attacked astro for trying to defend the cause, I will say what I’ve wanted to say to you for a while: People like you are the reason why I was anti-gay for the first 20 years of my life. Luckily I’ve grown up a bit. Hopefully you will too someday. If you’re blaming homophobia on gay people, then news flash: you didn’t “use to be” a homophobe. Try taking responsibility for yourself, fella. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/190 "2012-06-28T23:18:16Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > As some people have already suggested, the image probably _will_ pop up somewhere. > > A much more important question, though, is whether it will actually make any substantial impact, and i rather suspect that it won’t. People like you have made clear that every single homo could genuflect in front of Reagan’s portrait and you still wouldn’t allow them equal treatment under the law. And anyone who actually supports true equality, including marriage, will be unlikely to be pushed away from their position by the actions of a couple of doofuses. > > I guess it’s possible that, at the very margins, there might be a few dunderheads (i’m talking about count-'em-on-one-hand numbers here) who might have their vote swayed by this incident, but that’s probably the extent of it. The point is that both sides try to frame the discussion to their best advantage. The pro-gay/SSM side shows the most vanilla loving couple they can find. As well they should, as they’re trying to portray them in the most positive, acceptable, non-threatening way. The other side will try to paint them in a more negative light. This picture gives ammunition to the argument that gays are trying to change the country and have no respect for American traditions. That’s just a fact. Regardless of where anyone stands on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/191 "2012-06-28T23:25:58Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > You don’t get what “copyright law” or “concern troll” mean? Goddamn, you are just epically stupid, aren’t you? No, I do not know what a “concern troll” is. In fact, I don’t recall ever seeing the phrase. Care to explain it for poor little ol’ me? > [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Anyway, even if those images are used, it still won’t matter, because, again, the votes on marriage equality are not going to be decided by hand-wringing concern trolls. Sure, it makes sense for people like you to try to gin up the faux-outrage on issues like this, but you’re playing your cards wrong if you blow them on this outrage of the day, especially given that it’s months until November, because this is going to affect exactly zero people’s opinions. HA! What a little pea brain you must have. My only claim is that the pictures will be used. That’s a fact. I’m not ginning up faux-outrage or even real outrage. I simply stated what I and others see as a fact. If you think they won’t be used I’m pretty confident you will be proven wrong. But that won’t be surprising as you seem to be the Champion of Being Wrong. Hell, you pack so much into every post. That takes real talent. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/192 "2012-06-29T01:04:15Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > No, I do not know what a “concern troll” is. In fact, I don’t recall ever seeing the phrase. Care to explain it for poor little ol’ me? “When you say things like that, it reflects poorly on all conservatives. I’m concerned (very concerned) that some people will dismiss everything conservatives say on the basis of such ill-considered assertions.” “And your strong language! If you rephrased your remarks to make your point less clear, wordier and more polite, I think you would persuade more people. (Mmmpff!)” That’s concern trolling. > **[Concern troll](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll)** > > A concern troll is someone who disingenuously visits sites of an opposing ideology to disrupt conversation by offering unwanted advice on how to solve problems which do not really exist. Topics of "concern" usually involve tactical use of rhetoric,... Incidentally, most concern trolls aren’t trolls _per se_. Their motivation is not to piss people off: their motivation is to either whine if they are sincere or undermine if they are not. It’s a funny concept. See also: Useful idiot. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/193 "2012-06-29T01:42:25Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > “When you say things like that, it reflects poorly on all conservatives. I’m concerned (very concerned) that some people will dismiss everything conservatives say on the basis of such ill-considered assertions.” > > “And your strong language! If you rephrased your remarks to make your point less clear, wordier and more polite, I think you would persuade more people. (Mmmpff!)” > > That’s concern trolling. > [Concern troll - RationalWiki](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll) > > Incidentally, most concern trolls aren’t trolls _per se_. Their motivation is not to piss people off: their motivation is to either whine if they are sincere or undermine if they are not. It’s a funny concept. See also: Useful idiot. Sorry. Not seeing it. I stated that I think it a certainty that the picture will be used by the opposition. Others have expressed the same sentiment, from both ends of the spectrum. So, thanks for the link. I now know what it means and that mister nix was—unsurprisingly—wrong when he characterized me as such. I mean, fuck, I make no bones about my position on the issues here. I agree with him (I assume) on 99.99% of what gays want and should rightly have. I disagree on SSM. If you or he or anyone else doesn’t like it, that’s their problem. It is my strong position that the picture will be used. _Personally_, I think that can either be a good thing or a bad thing. If it is injected into the debate in order to prevent gays being extended rights other than SSM, I think it sucks and those idiots in the pictures should feel like the dumbasses they are. If it’s used to prevent SSM, I’d like to buy the dumbasses a drink. That should come as no surprise to people who have actually digested my position on gay right issues. But I find it funny that for a lot of posters my being opposed to SSM makes me a The Hater of Gays. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/194 "2012-06-29T01:46:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, thanks for the link. I now know what it means and that mister nix was—unsurprisingly—wrong when he characterized me as such. I mean, fuck, I make no bones about my position on the issues here. I agree with him (I assume) on 99.99% of what gays want and should rightly have. I disagree on SSM. If you or he or anyone else doesn’t like it, that’s their problem. So you’re an opponent of equal rights for gay people, and yet you spent this whole thread explaining over and over how _concerned_ you were about how this would hurt the fight for equal rights for gay people. In other words, I summarized your point of view precisely. [QUOTE=magellan01] But I find it funny that for a lot of posters my being opposed to SSM makes me a The Hater of Gays. [/QUOTE] You find it funny that people think your explicit opposition to equality for LGBT people makes you a Hater of Gays? Really? . . . It’s sorta hard to understand why you would find that “funny” rather than it being the entirely expected outcome of your position. But thanks for confirming my suspicion that the people making a lot of noise about how despicable this non-issue was were doing it because that’s a useful talking point for their side. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/195 "2012-06-29T01:52:33Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > So you’re an opponent of equal rights for gay people, and yet you spent this whole thread explaining over and over how _concerned_ you were about how this would hurt the fight for equal rights for gay people. > > In other words, I summarized your point of view precisely. God, you’re a dumb fuck. Try reading the words on the page and ignore the translation coming from the voices in your head. My point has been that the pictures will be used. Nothing more. You’re reading “concern” into it. As I just wrote I don’t know how concerned I should be. If it interferes with benefits and privileges other than SSM, I won’t be happy. You may want to reread the thread. I have repeatedly made the one point: the pictures will be used. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/196 "2012-06-29T01:59:56Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > But thanks for confirming my suspicion that the people making a lot of noise about how despicable this non-issue was were doing it because that’s a useful talking point for their side. What? People from both sides have shared the observation that the pictures could/will come back and be used against the things that the very idiots in the picture care about. Tak some deep breaths, chum. Slow down, cause half of your synapses aren’t keeping up with the other half’. Ease up on the meth or/and Monster energy drinks. Pour two fingers of scotch put on some mellow music and chill the out. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/197 "2012-06-29T02:10:38Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > My point has been that the pictures will be used. Nothing more. Yes. The people who took those pictures for Facebook will legally consent to have them used in anti-gay advertisements. And it’s great that you made that point time and time and time again even after having it pointed out to you at least a couple dozen times that even if your fellow anti-gay activists did that, it wouldn’t make the slightest difference in how anyone votes anyway, so the point is moot. This fight would be a lot harder if the people fighting against us weren’t all so fucking stupid. Thank goodness for small favors. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/198 "2012-06-29T02:19:18Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Yes. The people who took those pictures for Facebook will legally consent to have them used in anti-gay advertisements. And it’s great that you made that point time and time and time again even after having it pointed out to you at least a couple dozen times that even if your fellow anti-gay activists did that, it wouldn’t make the slightest difference in how anyone votes anyway, so the point is moot. > > This fight would be a lot harder if the people fighting against us weren’t all so fucking stupid. Thank goodness for small favors. God, your unfathomably dumb. Or just too wrapped up in your own world view to peak your head out and into a book of logic. Just because a handful of people are of the opinion that the pictures would be unpersuasive to anyone, doesn’t mean that that is fact. I guess you’ll have to trust me on this, it’s not the way things work, even if you weally, weally agwee with them. Weally!!! ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/199 "2012-06-29T02:28:32Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > God, your unfathomably dumb. Gosh, and I was trying so hard to convince illiterate people that I was smart! > [@](#): > > Or just too wrapped up in your own world view to peak your head out and into a book of logic. Just because a handful of people are of the opinion that the pictures would be unpersuasive to anyone, doesn’t mean that that is fact. I guess you’ll have to trust me on this, it’s not the way things work, even if you weally, weally agwee with them. Weally!!! Because I am not stupid like you, and because my head is not lodged firmly up my posterior, like yours is, I have this ability to distinguish between actual news items and shit no one actually gives a crap about. I’m sure that among your fellows, my amazing abilities would be thought of as some sort of witchcraft, but in reality, it’s something as simple as actually knowing what the fuck is going on, and having some idea how people actually make their choice when they vote. Since I’m not motivated by your nutty wish to defend the indefensible and argue against equality for LGBT people, I’m able to view the issue neutrally, whereas you are unable to disentangle it from your wishful thinking in which you think that people make these choices on the basis of a single photo or news story. You’re like every useless political prognosticator on the TV playing up the importance of this week’s gaffe, except you’re even dumber than them because you can’t even tell that this isn’t actually a gaffe because, clearly, it hasn’t gotten the slightest media foothold. And like other stupid people, you can’t imagine that not everyone is stupid like you, and you can’t imagine that they’re not also grasping for weak-ass reasons to vote against the rights of LGBT people. So let me tell you this, from someone who is smart to someone who is stupid: this will sway no votes, because the only group that this will really make an impression on are people like you – the ones who are already opposed to the rights of LGBT people and who are looking for some excuse to cling to, and who in the absence of any such excuse (since virtually no one is ever going to hear about this irrelevant ‘event’), will vote against LGBT people’s rights anyway. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/200 "2012-06-29T02:43:10Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Gosh, and I was trying so hard to convince illiterate people that I was smart! > Because I am not stupid like you, and because my head is not lodged firmly up my posterior, like yours is, I have this ability to distinguish between actual news items and shit no one actually gives a crap about. I’m sure that among your fellows, my amazing abilities would be thought of as some sort of witchcraft, but in reality, it’s something as simple as actually knowing what the fuck is going on, and having some idea how people actually make their choice when they vote. Since I’m not motivated by your nutty wish to defend the indefensible and argue against equality for LGBT people, I’m able to view the issue neutrally, whereas you are unable to disentangle it from your wishful thinking in which you think that people make these choices on the basis of a single photo or news story. > > You’re like every useless political prognosticator on the TV playing up the importance of this week’s gaffe, except you’re even dumber than them because you can’t even tell that this isn’t actually a gaffe because, clearly, it hasn’t gotten the slightest media foothold. And like other stupid people, you can’t imagine that not everyone is stupid like you, and you can’t imagine that they’re not also grasping for weak-ass reasons to vote against the rights of LGBT people. So let me tell you this, from someone who is smart to someone who is stupid: this will sway no votes, because the only group that this will really make an impression on are people like you – the ones who are already opposed to the rights of LGBT people and who are looking for some excuse to cling to, and who in the absence of any such excuse (since virtually no one is ever going to hear about this irrelevant ‘event’), will vote against LGBT people’s rights anyway. The stupid is too dense. I knew should have held on to that tank and crate of industrial chainsaws. You’re an idiot. Actually worse: and idiot that somehow got the notion inserted into his pea that he is smart. But you did make me laugh by doing in your Monster-induced foaming at the mouth exactly what you accuse me of doing—and more! It is my opinion that the pictures will be used. It is yours not only will they not be used, but if used they won’t convince anyone. Whatever you say, Kreskin. Ha. Funny stuff. Since I don’t have to live with it the way you do. Hey, why not use your great powers of prognostication to pick some lottery numbers. Or enter the World Series of Poker to use your mind-reading powers. You’re a shoo-in. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042.md?page=11)