# Gay activists flip off Reagan's picture **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2012, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042 "2012-06-23T06:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/161 "2012-06-27T06:32:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I wasn’t surprised that Reagan didn’t push for gay marriage back in the eighties - that simply wasn’t in the cards for a conservative politician, regardless of his personal beliefs, to take on his own base on a social issue. If Reagan had been silent on gay rights for eight years, it wouldn’t have been good but it would have been predictable. It wouldn’t have been in the cards for most liberal politicians either back then, I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/162 "2012-06-27T16:28:53Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The president is not a king and the White House is not a church. Ceremonial deference should neither be asked nor expected in an egalitarian democracy. So far as I’m concerned, there shouldn’t even _be_ an executive mansion. The president should get an office and a townhouse sufficient for his administrative needs and bereft of any ceremonial symbols or symbols of state or status. The Constitution should be amended to prohibit the creation or use of any symbols of office, such as presidential seals or flags, as well as any titles. The White House, should it exist at all, should be unoccupied by anyone and be open as a museum to the public. Do you think these people were protesting the fact that we have an executive mansion? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/163 "2012-06-27T17:10:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Do you think these people were protesting the fact that we have an executive mansion? It doesn’t really matter to me what they were protesting. They were failing to offer deference and I support failures to offer deference, especially in a manner that is neither destructive nor disruptive. If it was a juvenile act in bad taste, all the better, given that juvenile acts in bad taste are usually harmless. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/164 "2012-06-27T17:55:55Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > They were failing to offer deference It doesn’t matter how many times you say this, it doesn’t make it true. This was not an issue of “failing to offer deference”. This was an issue of choosing to offer insult. If anyone had been told they were supposed to bow their heads while they walked by Reagan’s portrait, I would support their decision not to do so. But that isn’t what happened and let’s not pretend that’s what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/165 "2012-06-27T18:08:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It doesn’t matter how many times you say this, it doesn’t make it true. > > This was not an issue of “failing to offer deference”. This was an issue of choosing to offer insult. > > If anyone had been told they were supposed to bow their heads while they walked by Reagan’s portrait, I would support their decision not to do so. But that isn’t what happened and let’s not pretend that’s what happened. It really doesn’t make a difference to me. I am all for insulting Reagan’s portrait or the White House or whatthefuckever as a subset of ways to fail to defer to symbols of authority. But I don’t even really accept that it was an insult to anyone. It was a picture of someone flipping off a painting. There wasn’t any actual person there to insult. You can’t insult inanimate objects, particularly objects that aren’t any particular person’s personal property. It was pure political speech, nondestructive, nondisruptive, and not even done in the within the view of any authoritative person. The people in the picture told no untruth about Reagan and actually didn’t say anything mean about him. It was a gesture expressing “I don’t like what this portrait stands for” in a pure and simple way. I not only accept such an act, I encourage it, I applaud it, I laud it. What they did was not only something that should not be criticized. It should be praised. More political expression should have these qualities. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/166 "2012-06-27T18:33:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It was pure political speech, nondestructive, nondisruptive, and not even done in the within the view of any authoritative person. The people in the picture told no untruth about Reagan and actually didn’t say anything mean about him. It was a gesture expressing “I don’t like what this portrait stands for” in a pure and simple way. And taking a photo of it and posting it on facebook. Because they wanted to stir some shit. They made a sophomoric political statement at an event that abused Obama’s goodwill. They’re classless, and the stupid photos help the right and hurt the left, because they make the left look sophomoric and classless. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/167 "2012-06-27T19:26:19Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It was a gesture expressing “I don’t like what this portrait stands for” in a pure and simple way. No. To express “I don’t like what this portrait stands for” in a pure and simple way, you merely articulate the phrase “I don’t like what this portrait stands for”. See? Pure. Simple. Publicly making a gesture to the portrait that stands for the words “Fuck You”, during a formal visit to the official seat of the executive branch of the federal government, and then broadcasting pictures of yourself in that act on the internet, is expressing “I don’t like what this portrait stands for” in a rude, obscene and stupid way. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/168 "2012-06-27T19:37:17Z")
Good heavens, I hope you guys don’t find out about the YMCA crucifixion picture. You may pop a blood vessel. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/169 "2012-06-27T19:40:05Z")
The right will always find a way to have a fit over something. You will never succeed in self-censoring to the point that they won’t find something to latch on to. All you will succeed is in turning yourself into a disingenuous, po-faced fool. As for “rude, obscene, and stupid.” Obscene – Purportedly obscene expressions of political opinion are fine with me. Stupid – that’s debatable. I think there are good reasons for people to want to flip off portraits of politicians. Rude – I disagree that it was rude. As I said before, they didn’t do it to an actual person’s face, they didn’t damage any physical property, and they didn’t disrupt any ongoing program or speech. They didn’t do it in any person’s actual personal residence and they didn’t do it to any person’s actual personal property. Moreover, if I believed that Obama himself was actually personally offended by what happened, then I think he’s a self-important prig. The only rational and reasonable response would be to chuckle over it and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/170 "2012-06-27T19:42:33Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > No. To express “I don’t like what this portrait stands for” in a pure and simple way, you merely articulate the phrase “I don’t like what this portrait stands for”. Flipping the bird is more elegant, succinct, and poetic. And it can be done in a non-verbal format, taking less time, and allowing it to be transmitted as a still photograph. It’s more expressive and more efficient than the words “I don’t like what this portrait stands for.” And it’s also funnier. So, flipping the bird gets all the points there. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/171 "2012-06-27T19:44:30Z")
( **Inner Stickler** ) - If the YMCA guys were atheists or Muslims invited to the White House, because the administration wanted an event to symbolize that they respect all religious stripes, and the atheists/Muslims took the YMCA picture in the White House with a crucifixion painting hanging there, then yeah, I’d probably pop a blood vessel. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/172 "2012-06-27T19:46:24Z")
> [@bup](#): > > ( **Inner Stickler** ) - If the YMCA guys were atheists or Muslims invited to the White House, because the administration wanted an event to symbolize that they respect all religious stripes, and the atheists/Muslims took the YMCA picture in the White House with a crucifixion painting hanging there, then yeah, I’d probably pop a blood vessel. Dude, they took a picture of themselves goofing off. If it gets up your nose, that’s no one’s problem but yours. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/173 "2012-06-27T19:54:14Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Dude, they took a picture of themselves goofing off. If it gets up your nose, that’s no one’s problem but yours. Gay sex is so weird. Only a little got up my nose. ---
**Author:** ![DeepLiquid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deepliquid/32/14893_2.png) [@DeepLiquid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeepLiquid)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/174 "2012-06-27T20:02:58Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Good heavens, I hope you guys don’t find out about the YMCA crucifixion picture. You may pop a blood vessel. Made me lol, seriously! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/175 "2012-06-27T20:52:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What a stupid and pointless act. > > A group of gay activists were invited to the White House to meet with President Obama. And how did two of them choose to use this opportunity? They took pictures of themselves flipping off a picture of Ronald Reagan and posted the pictures online. > > Grow up, you idiots. You’re guests in the White House. Show some respect. Hell, show some respect when you’re guests in anyone’s house. > > Show some respect to the President of the United States. You insulted both Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama by your stupidity. > > And if you’re going to “protest” pick something that has some meaning or accomplishes something of substance. All you did was embarrass whatever organization you were there to represent. > > [Gay Activists Flip Off Ronald Reagan Portrait At White House](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/22/gay-activists-ronald-reagan-white-house_n_1619392.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl4%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D172619) Certainly not a classy act and wish they hadn’t done it, but given the history, somewhat understandable. At least they didn’t do it to his face. So many GOPers see Reagan as godlike, but someone espousing his policies and showing his geniality to Democrats wouldn’t have made it past Iowa in the GOP primaries. And the Band Played on: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/2-o_8aQx4r8/hqdefault.jpg "And The Band Played On - Quote: More Profitable For You") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-o_8aQx4r8) Edit: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/d1-j0hLgPEQ/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AGeBIACsAKKAgwIABABGE8gUyhlMA8=&rs=AOn4CLDIv2q6oCVvosja3yq3DAVL1eVIQw "And the Band Played On") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1-j0hLgPEQ) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/176 "2012-06-27T23:55:50Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Good heavens, I hope you guys don’t find out about the YMCA crucifixion picture. You may pop a blood vessel. Where they there for an official function? Then yes, that would be inappropriate. Like I said, IF these people had done it while on some kind of tourist thingy, then no big deal. It’s the fact that it was done during an official, invited event that it was inappropriate. Context, people, context. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/177 "2012-06-28T00:27:53Z")
Can’t wait to see how much of a “no biggie” this is when the image is used by those fighting against the expansion of some gay rights initiative on a ballot somewhere. And it will be. But we’ll all just have to wait and see, won’t we? ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/178 "2012-06-28T00:55:19Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > The gay community would be wise to denounce these particular protesters as the assholes they clearly are. I take it you’ve never worked in politics. If indeed this is bad publicity, then obviously there’s absolutely to advantage in “the gay community” (whatever the fuck that is) directing eyeballs to it. Fortunately for “the gay community”, the only demographic that this issue resonates with appears to be the SDMB, and I don’t think any gay organization was all that worried about making sure to capture the Doper concern troll demographic. [QUOTE=Ascenray] The right will always find a way to have a fit over something. You will never succeed in self-censoring to the point that they won’t find something to latch on to. All you will succeed is in turning yourself into a disingenuous, po-faced fool. [/QUOTE] I would like to tattoo this onto the palm of the hand of every leftist in the United States. [QUOTE=Guinastasia] Where they there for an official function? Then yes, that would be inappropriate. Like I said, IF these people had done it while on some kind of tourist thingy, then no big deal. It’s the fact that it was done during an official, invited event that it was inappropriate. Context, people, context. [/QUOTE] Do you believe that if you post your juvenile, hair-splitting attempt to occupy the middle ground enough times in this thread, it’ll magically become something worth hearing, rather than just irrelevant background noise? [QUOTE=magellan01] Can’t wait to see how much of a “no biggie” this is when the image is used by those fighting against the expansion of some gay rights initiative on a ballot somewhere. And it will be. But we’ll all just have to wait and see, won’t we? [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: Yes, yes, you’re _very_ concerned. We know. You come at this strictly due to your _deep and abiding concern_. You’ve been sitting under your bridge, doing nothing but feeling _concerned_ for days. Fortunately, between copyright law and the fact that this issue would only possibly be some sort of “indictment” in the eyes of people desperately searching for a reason to justify their pre-existing attitudes, I’m _not_ concerned. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/179 "2012-06-28T01:09:56Z")
I’m not sure I get your meaning, but your oblique ad hominems matter not. Time will prove me correct: the image will pop up the next time an issue of gay rights or SSM is on the ballot somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042/180 "2012-06-28T01:16:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’m not sure I get your meaning, but your oblique ad hominems matter not. Time will prove me correct: the image will pop up the next time an issue of gay rights or SSM is on the ballot somewhere. As some people have already suggested, the image probably _will_ pop up somewhere. A much more important question, though, is whether it will actually make any substantial impact, and i rather suspect that it won’t. People like you have made clear that every single homo could genuflect in front of Reagan’s portrait and you still wouldn’t allow them equal treatment under the law. And anyone who actually supports true equality, including marriage, will be unlikely to be pushed away from their position by the actions of a couple of doofuses. I guess it’s possible that, at the very margins, there might be a few dunderheads (i’m talking about count-'em-on-one-hand numbers here) who might have their vote swayed by this incident, but that’s probably the extent of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-activists-flip-off-reagans-picture/626042.md?page=10)