# Gay aversion to diminutive names? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 22, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552 "2003-12-22T23:23:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/1 "2003-12-22T23:23:11Z")
Just so this doesn’t sound like a complete generalization, let me state that I’m referring to tendencies among gay men _with whom I have been acquainted_ over the years, as well as among some gay characters I’ve seen in movies and TV shows, and certainly doesn’t apply to all English-speaking gay men everywhere. Why do gay men tend to shun short versions of given names? It seems that gay men prefer to go by their full given names, ala Michael, James, Robert, Emmanuel, Richard, Thomas, etc, whereas their straight peers will usually go by the shortened versions, ala Mike, Jim, Rob/Bob, Manny, Rick/Rich, Tom, etc. I’ve known two exceptions, both gay men who go by Jim or Jimmy rather than James. I’ve also noticed that these same gay men will address straight male friends by their full given names, even when that straight friend ordinarily goes by the diminutive. For example, a friend of mine who was called “Mike” by just about everybody was always called “Michael” by a gay friend. Is there any significance to this? Is it a small clue to identify yourself to other gay men? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/2 "2003-12-22T23:53:38Z")
I’ve never heard of that. **DrMatrix** - Don’t call me Mat ---
**Author:** ![Roches](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc8723/32.png) [@Roches](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roches)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/3 "2003-12-23T00:07:48Z")
I’ve never heard of it either. I’ve known a few people (not gay, but primarily upper/upper-middle class and Jewish, for what it’s worth) who always referred to others by their full names. Actually, I think the trend among gay men is to use diminuitives rather than shun them. That being said, I think it’s somewhat rude to refer to someone by a name other than the name they prefer to use. I got the people I knew who referred to everyone by their ‘full’ name to use the name I prefer by not letting them know my ‘real’ name. ---
**Author:** ![Cruktar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d9b06d/32.png) [@Cruktar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cruktar)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/4 "2003-12-23T00:43:35Z")
Hmm…I’d never thought of this before, but I am gay and do tend to refer to men by using their full names. Brad is Bradley, Matt is Matthew, etc. I never made a conscious decision to do it, but I can’t off the top of my head think of any gay men who go by diminutives. ---
**Author:** ![nsmith4366](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/258eb7/32.png) [@nsmith4366](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nsmith4366)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/5 "2003-12-23T01:25:24Z")
Maybe its due to the nickname for the name Richard that started it all? (no offense intended!) wink Maybe someone just didn’t like saying, “and this is my friend Dick.” Well, it was worth a chuckle anyway. Forgive me. ---
**Author:** ![Mott\_the\_Hoople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Mott\_the\_Hoople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mott_the_Hoople)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/6 "2003-12-23T01:31:20Z")
I’ve worked for a hairdresser in Beverly Hills named Juan-Juan. Seems perculiar,Like Bob-Bob,Skip-Skip,Jim-Jim However,somehow it fits him… ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/7 "2003-12-23T01:36:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Maybe its due to the nickname for the name Richard that started it all? (no offense intended!) None taken, but I _did_ have to go through that shit in junior high. Teasing classmate: Hey, Dick! Me: Shut up! TC: It’s just short for “Richard”! Me: Shut up! But it mostly tailed off in 8th grade when I decided that I was going to go by “Rick” instead of Richard (changed the spelling to Rik my Senior year in HS) ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/8 "2003-12-23T03:04:10Z")
You mean, like Jimmy J. Bullock? or… Andy Warhol Dick Sargeant Freddie Mercury Nick Brown (British Argicultural Minister) Jim Kolbe (U.S. Republican Congressional Representative) Johnny Mathis Jimmy Sommerville Andy Bell Bill Tillden Tom Waddell Billy Bean Ted Allen (QEftSG) Bill Blass Dan Butler Harry Hay (famous gay activist who was a lover of **Will** Geer {granpa Walton}) Jerry Herman (composer of Hello Dolly & Mame – hmm) Tony Kushner Roddy McDowall ======== Your question is based on a small sample. You need a random selection of the male population, find out who’s gay and who’s not, and then see whether the gay men tend to avoid diminutives more than straight men. Peace. Sal Mineo Bob Paris (Mr. Universe) Bishop Gene Roberts Tommy Tune ---
**Author:** ![KP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a9adbd/32.png) [@KP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KP)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/9 "2003-12-23T05:17:03Z")
Though I am not in the habit of cataloguing who is gay (or how openly) From what I’ve read in the general media, and a little googling: **Andy Warhol** was not openly gay for decades after he became widely known by this name Similarly, **Dick Sargeant** (the 2nd Darren of "Bewitched) would certainly have ‘butched it up’, picking a SAG name in that homophobic era. **Johnny Mathis** would certainly not have wanted to be identified as gay at the peak of his career in the 50s and 60s (He came out in the 80s) **Freddie Mercury** was born “Faroukh Bulsara” in Zanzibar (per IMDB). “Freddie” wasn’t a dimunaiive, it was chosen to fit when he went to an English private school (he didn’t use it earlier at Indian private schools). **Nick Brown** was outraged at being outed. I’m not going any further down the list. There’s no point. While I entirely agree with your conclusion that the OP is based on a very small and quite possibly unrepresentative sample, I don’t think a list of public names (not even the names they necessarily used in private) heavily weighted towards show business and political celebrities from a homophobic era is any more representative. Even if the OP’s thesis were entirely valid, most of the people you chose would have deliberately selected names that seemed “het” to them in order to 'blend in" or at least not “advertise”. Based on my gay friends over the years, the OP might have a point, but I’d never assert it as a trend. I can see why any oppressed group might avoid the slight indignity of dimunitives (they face enough indignity) or posit other possible reasons - but none of it would be more than idle speculation. I just want to make an observation that might help you improve your list. However, argument by anecdote is always of limited value. There is no single monolithic gay community, and even if there were, names are an idiosyncratic matter. Many people learn to dislike the common nicknames for their names in childhood, even if they don’t suspect the sexuality they will eventually settle on. Other identify so strongly with their name that even if they aren’t fond of it, they don’t see the need to change. Professional and stage names, in particular, are chosen to have a specific impact, and sexuality rarely figure into that – why on Earth would anyone choose “Little Richard” as a stage name, if stage names always reflected sexuality? Just a few thoughts. No offense intended. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/10 "2003-12-23T05:48:30Z")
I have made a similar observation…with a twist. What I have noticed is that gay men are more likely to prefer that _they_ be called by their full name rather than the diminutive. So, if you’re in a room full of gay men, you’ll hear less diminutives, I guess. Most of my friends, including the gay men, call me by a shortened form of my full name. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/11 "2003-12-23T06:08:10Z")
Based on the many folks I know, I don’t see such a trend, other than one of professional decorum vs. casual. (I’ll stick with male names for now) I know a couple Dave and Michael, Chris (not Christopher), Jeff (not Jeffery), Doug (not Douglas), J.F., Joe (not Joseph), Ed (not Edward), and another couple Dan and Mike. I do kow another Michael who is always Michael (doesn’t look at all like a Mike though.) With the exception of “Jamie” the gay men I know who prefer using their _full_ names, are those who do so professionally - doctors, lawyers, a photographer etc. But then that’s the same (in my social circles) as the straight men. So I would suspect that the discrepancy has socio-economic elements/professional identity elements that supercede or contribute to any GLBT “trend” (this is a WAG based on anecdotal evidence as I’m very active in the GLBT community). Same with the gay women I know: Kathryn the lawyer (_never_ Kathy), Janice the engineer (never Jan). Jay the student… who uses Jocelyn professionally for her artwork. Patricia the lawyer… who is Pat the hockey player. So there is likely _more_ going on than just the GLBT connection. I would say that I don’t really notice any difference in Michael vs. Mike preferences between my straight or gay colleagues. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/12 "2003-12-23T06:10:04Z")
Note: Interesting OP though. I’m sure to be noticing a lot more in the future. And I prefer to go by my full name… Hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/13 "2003-12-23T06:41:11Z")
This queer man goes by a diminuitive. Among others I know, it seems fairly 50 - 50. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/14 "2003-12-23T07:06:41Z")
I will mention that the majority of the gay men I’ve known have worked in the same field that I’m in - hospitality. I’m a cook. Some of these men have also been cooks, while others were waiters and bartenders. I met most of them because the restaurant I worked in at the time closed at midnight every night, and on weeknights, most other local restaurants and bars were closed by that time. There was one bar that stayed open until 2:00 every night, so it sort of became the after-work gathering place for restaurant/bar workers who were getting off work at 11:00 or 12:00. It just so happened that all of the men working in this particular bar were gay. I got to know most of them over time. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/15 "2003-12-23T07:18:59Z")
I haven’t really noticed it. I mean, I know some gay people who prefer to go by their full names, but I also know some straight people who prefer to go by their full names. For the most part, both my gay and straight friends have nicknames or diminutives. ``` Steve (See? :) ) ``` ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/16 "2003-12-23T07:52:13Z")
I have noticed this too. I don’t know any gay men that go by their short names. That is a really good way of pickig them out. It is always Michael, Mattew, Charles, Carlton…However I have also noticed this rule is common to black men as well (and they are straight.) Virtually every black man I have known will not shorten their name…James, Jonathan, David etc etc… Also Duane it’s a homosexual name. I’ve never know an (non southerner) named Duane or Dwayne that wasn’t a homosexual. As for the list of famous people do we know for sure that is what they were called in private. Lots of stars don’t go by their stage names in private. ---
**Author:** ![modro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@modro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/modro)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/17 "2003-12-23T13:01:57Z")
I know few gay men who go by anything other than diminutives. Andy, Ricky, Matt, Nick, Steve, etc… I myself, go by Don, not Donald. I’d rank this as another generalization, based on stereotyping, that no more applies to gay men than it does straight men. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/18 "2003-12-23T14:16:18Z")
From those I know personally, there are Don, Tom, another Tom, and Chip (and he insists that anyone meeting him call him “Chip”). There’s also a Paul, but there’s no real shortened version of that name. So if I used my sample, I’d say they _all_ use diminutives. But my sample is as bad as any other; there’s no real pattern either way. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/19 "2003-12-23T14:59:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Markxxx \* > \*\*As for the list of famous people do we know for sure that is what they were called in private. Lots of stars don’t go by their stage names in private. \*\* Yes, I for example, go by Eats\_ColoredWax in my private life (confuses people when I sign autographs this way…). And **Markxxx** ’s nickname is simply **xxx** , but you wouldn’t want your mother to know that. Gives the wrong impression. What were we talking about again? ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552/20 "2003-12-23T15:03:00Z")
I thought that the idea of gay aversion to dimunitives, if not true, was at least stereotypical. For those who attempt, with a hand flourish and a lisp, to imitate gay men, I’ve always heard the long form of a name used. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-aversion-to-diminutive-names/220552.md?page=2)