# Gay Christians are better than Straight Christians **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916 "2003-07-16T16:37:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/181 "2003-07-22T02:28:06Z")
> [@](#): > > The idea that we were outside a church telling all in the church to repent is wrong. I think I said before, we were outside a bar. Now how many times to I have to say it, or was I unclear? Quite unclear, actually. Why did you say, in your first post to this thread, that you went to “meet with the homosexual church in Cedar Springs”? Because if you were outside a bar on Cedar Springs you were 20 blocks away from the Cathedral of Hope. You’ve created the confusion by stating you were there to meet with the Gay church, then later **changing** your story to being by a bar. Please explain the contradiction. ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/182 "2003-07-22T03:10:06Z")
Oh, sorry. Let me try and clarify, as some of the people I met with, were from the homosexual church. So I need to be clearer on that. Sorry. There were some people we’d see every week. I had people who were gay that were my friends. So did we go down to see them? Yes. Were they from the church there? I believe so. Did we go to the church? Nope, never once did I mean to even imply we did, and we always went Friday night. There were some people I actually looked forward to talking to meeting with, one or two guys in particular, but not all the people were nice. So let me again say “Did we go to the church? No, did we meet with people from the homosexual church? Yes.” I think I’ve said this many times, and never do I recall saying we went to the church. "We were in Cedar Springs, not near the church, there was a bar where we were, so if the bar is by the church, then we were at the church, but again, I don’t believe we were near the church. " But the point I was unclear on, and I am sorry about that was when I said “My incident in Dallas was when we use to go and meet with the homosexual church in Cedar Springs”. I was wrong to say this, as we did not meet with the church, and to say all people we met there were from the church is incorrect, and I’m sorry. There were people who knew the Bible, and would come see us every week, which was more why I thought of it as the homosexual church, and that again is wrong, but we always met them at the same spot, near the bar. So again, I was wrong to say we met with the homosexual church, I should have said we met with a group of homosexual Christians almost every time we were there. We did not seek them out, and not only that, some of the questions they’d ask really made me have to go and study my Bible, and I don’t think they minded. I am so glad for that time, as I think that was my true teaching ground. I can also say that one guy who was there, when I go back to Dallas I’ll look him up, because I considered him a good friend. I don’t condone his lifestyle, and he knows it, but I don’t condemn him either. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/183 "2003-07-22T03:25:36Z")
Lifestyle… _crawls into the bomb shelter again_ When will they ever learn? ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/184 "2003-07-22T03:31:15Z")
Oh, sorry. Let me try and clarify, as some of the people I met with, were from the homosexual church. So I need to be clearer on that. Sorry. There were some people we’d see every week. I had people who were gay that were my friends. So did we go down to see them? Yes. Were they from the church there? I believe so. Did we go to the church? Nope, never once did I mean to even imply we did, and we always went Friday night. There were some people I actually looked forward to talking to meeting with, one or two guys in particular, but not all the people were nice. So let me again say “Did we go to the church? No, did we meet with people from the homosexual church? Yes.” I think I’ve said this many times, and never do I recall saying we went to the church. "We were in Cedar Springs, not near the church, there was a bar where we were, so if the bar is by the church, then we were at the church, but again, I don’t believe we were near the church. " But the point I was unclear on, and I am sorry about that was when I said “My incident in Dallas was when we use to go and meet with the homosexual church in Cedar Springs”. I was wrong to say this, as we did not meet with the church, and to say all people we met there were from the church is incorrect, and I’m sorry. There were people who knew the Bible, and would come see us every week, which was more why I thought of it as the homosexual church, and that again is wrong, but we always met them at the same spot, near the bar. So again, I was wrong to say we met with the homosexual church, I should have said we met with a group of homosexual Christians almost every time we were there. We did not seek them out, and not only that, some of the questions they’d ask really made me have to go and study my Bible, and I don’t think they minded. I am so glad for that time, as I think that was my true teaching ground. I can also say that one guy who was there, when I go back to Dallas I’ll look him up, because I considered him a good friend. I don’t condone his lifestyle, and he knows it, but I don’t condemn him either. ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/185 "2003-07-22T03:33:46Z")
Oh shoot, my computer is really slow, or these forums are, so when I try and post, I thought it got stuck and posted twice. Sorry, just getting to know my way around. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/186 "2003-07-22T03:34:43Z")
I could really understand it if someone didn’t condone my lifestyle. I mean, my apartment is _filthy._ ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/187 "2003-07-22T04:37:01Z")
Now let me also say though, as my last line is misleading, there is a deception that God hates the sin, loves the sinner. Charles Finney stated, "God is not angry merely against the sin abstracted from the sinner, but against the sinner himself. Some persons have labored hard to set up this ridiculous and absurd abstraction, and would fain make it appear that God is angry at sin, yet not at the sinner. He hates the theft, but loves the thief. He abhors adultery, but is pleased with the adulterer. Now this is supreme nonsense. The sin has no moral character apart from the sinner. The act is nothing apart from the actor. The very thing that God hates and disapproves is not the mere event—the thing done in distinction from the doer; but it is the doer himself. It grieves and displeases Him that a rational moral agent, under His government, should array himself against his own God and Father, against all that is right and just in the universe. This is the thing that offends God. The sinner himself is the direct and the only object of his anger. "So the Bible shows. God is angry with the wicked [Psalm 7:11], not with the abstract sin. If the wicked turn not, God will whet His sword—He has bent His bow and made it ready—not to shoot at the sin, but the sinner—the wicked man who has done the abominable thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/188 "2003-07-22T04:53:04Z")
Yeah, I know what you mean, **matt\_mcl**. I so need to vacuum and do laundry. And I’m not as good about cleaning the vivarium as I should be, either. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/189 "2003-07-22T05:03:13Z")
I think **Svt4Him** is starting to show their true colors, quoting about how God hates people. I’ve got some folks right here in Topeka I could hook **Svt** up with. They’re in need of a fresh addition to their gene pool too, because there are basically only two families(Hockenbargers and Phelps), plus a very few others, that are marrying each other. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/190 "2003-07-22T05:05:22Z")
It’s not that I hate _Christians_, it’s that I hate _Christianity_. :rolleyes: Haven’t we been here before? And, really, **Svt** , why were you hanging outside a bar on a Friday night? You were there to witness. (Or did you already admit that? Not much of what you’ve written is very clear, and rather hard to follow. It’s difficult to keep up.) Esprix ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/191 "2003-07-22T05:56:15Z")
Truly amazing how someone can go four fucking pages in a thread and see people say time and again: THERE IS NO LIFESTYLE And still not get it. **Svt4him** , I have but one bit of advice for you: you know that bit when the preacher said to you “God said reading comprehension is a sin!”? **He lied.** ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/192 "2003-07-22T06:10:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lilairen \* > \*\*Yeah, I know what you mean, **matt\_mcl**. I so need to vacuum and do laundry. And I’m not as good about cleaning the vivarium as I should be, either. \*\* My house is pristine. My lifestyle is the envy of all who see it. Martha Stewart should have such a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Aries28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Aries28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aries28)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/193 "2003-07-22T12:39:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\*Recommend that you have nearby: > > 1. Tylenol (for headaches) > 2. A metal bowl (for puking) > 3. Spare glasses in case you want to make sure you’re _actually_ reading what you think you see. > 4. A Bible (so you can keep up with the dueling Bible-wielder. For my part, I don’t try to throw scripture at people. I use logic knives instead) > 5. A pillow so when you feel like screaming, you don’t wake up people in the next zip code. > 6. A warm towel (see #1) > 7. Nothing to do for about five hours, because some of them posts are LONG. \*\* You weren’t just whistling Dixie…MAN is this some messed up stuff. I think \*\*iampunha, Poly and Seige \*\* have pretty much summed it up over and over and over and over again so no sense in rehashing the same arguments. In short, as I have said before, whether or not homosexuality is a sin is not my call. Whether it is a choice or something that just is, not my call. I firmly believe with Christ came a new law and this law was to love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind AND love your neighbor as yourself. If I can manage to do these two things during my time on Earth then I will feel confident in standing before my maker and telling Him that I tried to do what I felt I was instructed to do. I will happily share my beliefs with others. I WILL NOT, however, lie in wait outside churches, bars, homes, etc., push my beliefs in their faces when they clearly do not want to discuss it with me, or display my religion like a trophy and tell anybody who doesn’t believe the way I do how bad or wrong they are and how much better I am than them. The God I believe in hates sin. Loves sinners. He hates the fact that I divorced my first husband and married a new person. He hates the fact that I committed adultery once. He hates the fact I haven’t always treated my body as a temple. He hates a whole list of things I have done wrong throughout my life but HE LOVES ME. Now \*\* IF \*\* homosexuality is a sin then God does hate it but He loves every single homosexual out there…even when they don’t love Him. One sin is no worse than any other sin. **IF** homosexuality is a sin then it is no better or worse of a sin than anything I’ve ever done or ever will do throughout my life. The memory verse I taught the kids on Sunday: "Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit but in humility count others better than yourself. Let each of you not only look to his own interests but also to the interests of others. " Love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind. Love your neighbor as yourself. The rest will figure itself out one way or another. But I’m not the decider of what is or isn’t sin or who is or isn’t “worthy” to get to Heaven. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/194 "2003-07-22T13:55:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Svt4Him \* > \*\*Now let me also say though, as my last line is misleading, there is a deception that God hates the sin, loves the sinner. Charles Finney stated, “God is not angry merely against the sin abstracted from the sinner, but against the sinner himself. Some persons have labored hard to set up this ridiculous and absurd abstraction, and would fain make it appear that God is angry at sin, yet not at the sinner.” \*\* Finally! one of them admits that “hate the sin, love the sinner” is a lie. > [@](#): > > I don’t condone his lifestyle,… And what, exactly, is that “lifestyle”? > [@](#): > > … but not all the people were nice. As I said before, it gets tiring to be told you’re going to hell so frequently, even if you don’t believe such a place exists. As I said before, standing on the street corner at Cedar Springs and Throckmorten, handing out tracts and telling us that homosexuality is against God IS seen as arrogant cymbal banging by your victims… er… I mean the people you are trying to reach. _I_ would like to shove those tracts up your ass. And just like the guy who said he’d like to punch you, I have not plans to actually do it. Just sharing my feelings with you. ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/195 "2003-07-22T16:33:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baker \* > \*\*I think **Svt4Him** is starting to show their true colors, quoting about how God hates people. I’ve got some folks right here in Topeka I could hook **Svt** up with. They’re in need of a fresh addition to their gene pool too, because there are basically only two families(Hockenbargers and Phelps), plus a very few others, that are marrying each other. \*\* How is this showing my true colours? I believe God loves all. But to say God hates the sin and loves the sinner is not accurate. God will judge all sinners, as that says in my last post. Have you ever heard of a sermon “Sinners in the hands of an angry God”? But it is not God’s desire to send people to hell, and it’s His desire that all are saved. But even Jesus said, “He who believes in the son has ever lasting life, but he who believes not the son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/196 "2003-07-22T16:44:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*It’s not that I hate _Christians_, it’s that I hate _Christianity_. :rolleyes: > > And, really, **Svt** , why were you hanging outside a bar on a Friday night? You were there to witness. (Or did you already admit that? Not much of what you’ve written is very clear, and rather hard to follow. It’s difficult to keep up.) > > Esprix \*\* Well, let me post what I said, in response to the question asked: Q: I venture to guess that you sought to witness to them. If I am correct, please say so; if not, correct me. And if this be the case, may I ask the nature of the witness? A: You are absolutely correct, but when you say to them, I’d also add that we weren’t just witnessing to them, but pretty much to everyone. How did we do it? Well, we took a big red cross and stood at the corner, and talked to anyone who came to us. Now what did I preach on? Well, depends on the person. If they’re proud, I preached law, if humble, grace. Who am I to tell the difference you may think? Well, if someone doesn’t think they’re a sinner, therefore they don’t need to be saved, that would be a proud person. Then I’d preach from the ten commandments to show them they need to be saved. If someone is feeling bad for what they’ve done, I’d share God’s love. Some don’t care either way, or some just needed someone to talk to, then I’d listen, and wouldn’t share anything. And again, I’ve heard some stories that still make me sad to think about. As far as my stance on what I believe, I have a firm stance, and some things I know to be true. But people don’t really care how much you know until they know how much you care may be apropos here. So yes, it was answered. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/197 "2003-07-22T17:37:40Z")
Indeed. :rolleyes: God save me from your followers. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/198 "2003-07-22T18:16:03Z")
Indeed, indeed, **Esprix**. > [@](#): > > But people don’t really care how much you know until they know how much you care … Seeing as how you were unable to answer the Biblical questions posed to you, we can see how much you know. Since you seem to ignore the responses about how we “feel” about your actions, then we can infer how much you care. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/199 "2003-07-22T18:17:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Svt4Him \* > \*\*How is this showing my true colours? I believe God loves all. But to say God hates the sin and loves the sinner is not accurate. God will judge all sinners, as that says in my last post. Have you ever heard of a sermon “Sinners in the hands of an angry God”? \*\* Why yes, **Svt** , I happen to be an educated Christian with an open mind, unlike yourself. Let’s see, the “sinners” sermon you mentioned. Hmm, let me think, oh yeah! Jonathan Edwards, July 8, 1741, am I right? What prize do I win? Got it in my history books, and it’s one of Fred Phelps favorite sermons, he quotes it a lot. Boy that’s reaching, when you have to rely on a sermon that’s older than this country. So you see, you all have more similarities with him than you thought! ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916/200 "2003-07-22T18:38:22Z")
Feel free to insert my line about freedom from Jesus Christ at any point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-christians-are-better-than-straight-christians/188916.md?page=11)